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ProfessorJohn
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19 Aug 2016, 10:17 am

I have seen it mentioned here numerous times that we "see things differently" than NTs, especially when it comes to problem solving, and many see that as a virtue. I am curious-how exactly do we see things differently? I can guess that we use logic much more than emotions when making decisions, but then I let me emotions run things far too much and that can get me in trouble also.



kraftiekortie
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19 Aug 2016, 10:22 am

It depends on the person.

Frequently, it involves alternative paths to solutions--whether mathematical, philosophical, or whatever.

They might realize, more than NT's, that it doesn't matter how one obtains the correct answer, as long as the answer is actually correct.

Temple Grandin was able to invent a humane way of vaccinating animals because she saw things from the viewpoint of animals. She even was able to discern how an animal sees things, and from what angles the animal sees them, via her unique perceptive abilities probably bought about by her autism.

Most people do not have this ability; they can only see things from the perspective of people, rather than of animals.



BTDT
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19 Aug 2016, 10:27 am

An interesting example occurred recently on this forum when someone thought he was being bullied by his boss. I though she was just trying to do her job by telling him to only do his job--not the extra stuff he thought he should do as part of good customer service. I thought his job was to sweep the floors, not to attend to customers.



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19 Aug 2016, 11:16 am

Quote from Tony Attwood

Tony's Perspective
From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Aspergers Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking.

The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others.

The person values being creative rather than co-operative.

The person with Aspergers syndrome may perceive errors that are not apparent to others, giving considerable attention to detail, rather than noticing the “big picture”.

The person is usually renowned for being direct, speaking their mind and being honest and determined and having a strong sense of social justice.

The person may actively seek and enjoy solitude, be a loyal friend and have a distinct sense of humour.

However, the person with Aspergers Syndrome can have difficulty with the management and expression of emotions.

Children and adults with Aspergers syndrome may have levels of anxiety, sadness or anger that indicate a secondary mood disorder. There may also be problems expressing the degree of love and affection expected by others. Fortunately, we now have successful psychological treatment programs to help manage and express emotions.


_________________
Rdos: ND 133/200, NT 75/200

Not Diagnosed and Not Sure


SnailHail
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20 Aug 2016, 7:07 pm

goatfish57 wrote:
Quote from Tony Attwood

Tony's Perspective
From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Aspergers Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking.

The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others.

The person values being creative rather than co-operative.

The person with Aspergers syndrome may perceive errors that are not apparent to others, giving considerable attention to detail, rather than noticing the “big picture”.

The person is usually renowned for being direct, speaking their mind and being honest and determined and having a strong sense of social justice.

The person may actively seek and enjoy solitude, be a loyal friend and have a distinct sense of humour.

However, the person with Aspergers Syndrome can have difficulty with the management and expression of emotions.

Children and adults with Aspergers syndrome may have levels of anxiety, sadness or anger that indicate a secondary mood disorder. There may also be problems expressing the degree of love and affection expected by others. Fortunately, we now have successful psychological treatment programs to help manage and express emotions.


I think most of it accurately describes myself.



saxgeek
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20 Aug 2016, 7:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It depends on the person.

Frequently, it involves alternative paths to solutions--whether mathematical, philosophical, or whatever.

They might realize, more than NT's, that it doesn't matter how one obtains the correct answer, as long as the answer is actually correct.

Temple Grandin was able to invent a humane way of vaccinating animals because she saw things from the viewpoint of animals. She even was able to discern how an animal sees things, and from what angles the animal sees them, via her unique perceptive abilities probably bought about by her autism.

Most people do not have this ability; they can only see things from the perspective of people, rather than of animals.

That's basically what empathy is, the ability to understand the feelings of someone else from their perspective, in this case, an animal. So, do most people lack empathy with animals, when autistic people are the ones often blamed for lacking empathy?



SnailHail
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20 Aug 2016, 7:38 pm

Well for me, I had no Gaydar, I thought nothing of flamboyant/adrogynous behavior and assumed the guys were straight.

I always want to know "why" behind something. I have a curiosity for things and I want to know the "why" behind people and things.



ProfessorJohn
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20 Aug 2016, 10:36 pm

SnailHail wrote:

I always want to know "why" behind something. I have a curiosity for things and I want to know the "why" behind people and things.



That is pretty much me also. Do most NTs not want to know the "way" behind something?



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20 Aug 2016, 10:57 pm

I've been told this quite a few times, it always surprises me because I just see things how I see them with careful measurement of whatever the shape and depth of 'the thing', it ends up being my hard fought sight, I don't know why it's considered ''different'' and whether it's good or bad or admirable or humorous to others, it is what it is as the annoying saying decrees. The other week an advisor who helps me with things said she was trying to see it from my perspective as she finds it interesting how I think and feel about things that differ markedly from other people she helps.



SnailHail
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21 Aug 2016, 3:36 pm

ProfessorJohn wrote:
SnailHail wrote:

I always want to know "why" behind something. I have a curiosity for things and I want to know the "why" behind people and things.



That is pretty much me also. Do most NTs not want to know the "way" behind something?

I think most NTs may be quick to dismiss and label things. For example if a kid does something bad, everyone else would just immediately get angry and label the kid as bad. Me I would ask the kid why they did that bad thing before immediately jumping to conclusions. For all I know the kid didn't know what he was doing was bad or he was angry and didn't know how to express it in a appropriate way.



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21 Aug 2016, 4:46 pm

I do notice that a lot. Most neurotypicals don't question things. They just "go with the flow" and accept the current state of affairs. I'm always asking why someone is doing something or questioning someone's belief. I have a hard time accepting religion because it completely defies logic, and the Bible was apparently written by some unknown psychotic people thousands of years ago, though large masses of people accept it as truth. I also have trouble understanding why so many mediocre musicians get to be so popular and sell millions of albums. There are also some that sound terrible like Nickelback, Slipknot, Bob Dylan, to name a few. That example SnailHail gave is really good. I'm not someone who jumps to conclusions and automatically judges someone. I may have an idea why someone does something unusual, but I question it and don't let just a gut feeling dominate how I think of the person.



HighLlama
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21 Aug 2016, 4:54 pm

saxgeek wrote:
I do notice that a lot. Most neurotypicals don't question things. They just "go with the flow" and accept the current state of affairs. I'm always asking why someone is doing something or questioning someone's belief. I have a hard time accepting religion because it completely defies logic, and the Bible was apparently written by some unknown psychotic people thousands of years ago, though large masses of people accept it as truth. I also have trouble understanding why so many mediocre musicians get to be so popular and sell millions of albums. There are also some that sound terrible like Nickelback, Slipknot, Bob Dylan, to name a few. That example SnailHail gave is really good. I'm not someone who jumps to conclusions and automatically judges someone. I may have an idea why someone does something unusual, but I question it and don't let just a gut feeling dominate how I think of the person.


Calling the authors of the Bible psychotic is an assumption, though. So is assuming Bob Dylan's fans can't have a different view than you, and that he's objectively terrible sounding. We can all jump to conclusions, though I do get your general point. I think NTs and NDs will make assumptions about different things and question different things, generally. Probably in the same way that people say NTs see the big picture and we notice details.



kraftiekortie
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22 Aug 2016, 2:12 pm

LOL...will everybody just throw the idea that autistic people have no empathy in the garbage heap?

Yep....Temple Grandin probably had more empathy towards animals than the average person.

But I was really talking about the ability to discern subtle angles--which would mean a difference between the painful vaccination of an animal, and a much less painful/ humane vaccination. It has to do with the placement of the vaccination device vis-à-vis the animal. The difference in angle between the two could very well be less than one degree.

Most humans don't have this much of an acute ability to discern differences as subtle as these--especially when it comes to cattle.



RobertColumbia
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28 Aug 2016, 1:13 pm

goatfish57 wrote:
Quote from Tony Attwood

Tony's Perspective
From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Aspergers Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking.

The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others....

The person is usually renowned for being direct, speaking their mind and being honest and determined and having a strong sense of social justice.

The person may actively seek and enjoy solitude, be a loyal friend and have a distinct sense of humour.

However, the person with Aspergers Syndrome can have difficulty with the management and expression of emotions....


This is very close to my own experiences. I've found that I seem to have a different expression of "empathy" than most. Most people seem to express empathy through emotional acts - crying with someone, saying "kind words", etc., while I tend to have a different reaction - I am affected minimally by traumatic events and immediately go forward to try to provide practical help. For example, someone I know has recently been diagnosed with a terminal illness and is very sick. I was able to immediately move forward and start providing practical help to the family such as assistance with logistics and transportation while others were still largely paralyzed in what I call the "why why why? cry cry cry" stage of gushing emotions and little action. I suspect that many people see my behavior as cold and uncaring, while my nature tells me that this is the true way to express caring.



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28 Aug 2016, 6:29 pm

I gather Temple Grandin also designed her cattle guidance system so that the "lanes" they get herded through follow a direction they would naturally herd themselves -- something about how a herd tend to move to the left together, or similar. She figured out that man-made guidance conduits that mimicked the herds' natural way of moving around would be more soothing to them and produce less anxiety in the animals than some other way of moving them through.

She figured out what stresses them and what seems normal to them, and reproduced the normal conditions to keep them from getting stressed.



kraftiekortie
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28 Aug 2016, 9:32 pm

Yep.....Ms Grandin had that sort of awareness.