My craziest idea yet: female hormone supplements

Page 1 of 4 [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Tyri0n
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,879
Location: Douchebag Capital of the World (aka Washington D.C.)

19 Feb 2013, 2:56 pm

If autism is supposedly a hyper male brain (according to one theory that hasn't convinced me), I was wondering if taking the same things that M-F trans take for conversion therapy would help to develop a slightly less male brain, thus improving autistic symptoms and communication skills? Or maybe even girls with autism could do this too.

I don't mean the full blown dose of hormones for conversion therapy. But maybe a few of them in small doses. Is this just crazy, or could it work?

I'm not even sure that autism is a hyper male brain, but I am the type of person who would try this if I thought it would work. lol

According to this study, most of the improvement in the communication skills of women with HFA happen long after birth, implying that changes might be possible after birth with the right chemicals.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0020835



Last edited by Tyri0n on 19 Feb 2013, 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kirostun
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 9 Oct 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 145

19 Feb 2013, 3:06 pm

if the hyper male brain theory is correct then i think it could work.



JellyCat
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2012
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 338
Location: U.K.

19 Feb 2013, 3:07 pm

Taking hormones wouldn't make a fully developed adult's brain any 'less autistic'.
Though hormones could make a difference to how children's, babies, toddlers, and fetuses brains develop (though not much change would occur if these hormones were given after birth, but there could still be a difference. The earlier these hormones are given, the better).
There is a direct correlation between how much testosterone a baby makes themselves in some of the earlier weeks of pregnancy, and how stereotypically autistic the baby is once born.



Last edited by JellyCat on 19 Feb 2013, 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rascal77s
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

19 Feb 2013, 3:17 pm

You might be on to something here.... let's see, females are much less likely to be diagnosed with ASD --> Females have tits --> Males take female hormones and grow tits --> therefore the male DX rate should drop down to the female level --> Yes...Yes,according to my calculations I think it could work!



JellyCat
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2012
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 338
Location: U.K.

19 Feb 2013, 3:19 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Well the brain is always plastic, right? So wouldn't it change slowly over time, particularly in the case of a 26-year-old autistic male who is at least several years behind developmentally and was doing other things to help it along?

I'm wondering if M-F transsexuals improve their communication skills as a byproduct of conversion therapy.

The wiring of the brain would not change over time. It can only change if you have a stroke/surgery.

If you're behind on your development, it could make a tiny, probably not even noticeable difference to the way your brain develops from here on after, but taking hormones really isn't recommended. You'll experience many physical problems, become much more emotional (because of the chemical changes in your brain), and to be honest, I think you'll have a harder time socialising with others if you look as feminine as these hormones would make you look (people are generally a lot nicer to people who they think look good).



Last edited by JellyCat on 19 Feb 2013, 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jinks
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 333

19 Feb 2013, 3:20 pm

Actually, though it sounds kind of silly, there is something to this idea which I feel is a HUGE research opportunity not being taken advantage of in studies of autism. I have asked other trans people about the effect of their HRT on their autistic traits and all of them have told me they experienced changes in the manifestation of their autism - some positively, some negatively, some neutral (such as some traits changing or disappearing or being replaced by others). Because of my own experience in this regard (I transitioned from female to male some years ago) I made a thread about it in the LGBT forum a while back - I'll go and find the link in a moment.

On the other hand, unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be as simple as "less male hormones = less autism" or "more female hormones = less autism". As you may have noticed, there are many female autistic people here who aren't growing beards, who seem to have perfectly normal female hormone levels! Therefore hormone levels are clearly only one of a number of factors which affect autism. I'd also suggest that a SMALL amount of estrogen probably wouldn't be able to change very much about your brain. Changing your body's hormonal system from primarily testosterone to primarily estrogen or vice versa does indeed have mental and emotional effects, but that's a different order of magnitude entirely.

There are quite a lot of autistic people who are transgender (numerous studies have now demonstrated that there are more trans people among autistics than neurotypical people) so I'm impatiently waiting for someone in the position to do something about it to notice what a source of interesting information about autism this could be and start keeping track of what happens to the autistic traits when the dominant body hormone changes.



JellyCat
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2012
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 338
Location: U.K.

19 Feb 2013, 3:39 pm

Quote:
JellyCat wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Well the brain is always plastic, right? So wouldn't it change slowly over time, particularly in the case of a 26-year-old autistic male who is at least several years behind developmentally and was doing other things to help it along?

I'm wondering if M-F transsexuals improve their communication skills as a byproduct of conversion therapy.

The wiring of the brain would not change over time. It can only change if you have a stroke/surgery.

If you're behind on your development, it could make a tiny, probably not even noticeable difference to the way your brain develops from here on after, but taking hormones really isn't recommended. You'll experience many physical problems, become much more emotional (because of the chemical changes in your brain), and to be honest, I think you'll have a harder time socialising with others if you look as feminine as these hormones would make you look (people are generally a lot nice to people they think look good).


Well becoming more emotional would not be a terrible thing for someone who is often knocked for having flat affect, is it? That alone might be a reason to take them.

Would small amounts change appearance in a significant way, even if I made sure to keep a low body fat level and only took small amounts?


Becoming more emotional will not make it easier for an autistic person to express themselves. They'll just have more that they are unable to express.

Small amounts would not make a significant difference to your physical appearance (though there would still be some difference), but small amounts of female hormones, in my opinion, aren't even worth taking to make yourself 'less autistic'. There would (probably) be no noticeable difference to your brain.



MjrMajorMajor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,763

19 Feb 2013, 4:12 pm

JellyCat wrote:

Small amounts would not make a significant difference to your physical appearance (though there would still be some difference).


I don't know... have you heard the warnings on the topical(gel) testosterone supplements?
From WebMD...

Signs to Watch For

Side effects reported in children include

• inappropriate enlargement of the external sexual organs (penis or clitoris)

• premature development of pubic hair

• advanced bone age

• increased self-stimulation

• aggressive behavior

In most cases, the signs and symptoms lessened when the child was no longer exposed to the product. However, in a few cases, enlarged sexual organs did not fully return to the child's age-appropriate size and bone age remained greater than the child's chronological age.

Topical seems to be a higher risk, but there always seems to be a large risk for a small payoff with a lot of medications.



JellyCat
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2012
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 338
Location: U.K.

19 Feb 2013, 5:13 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
JellyCat wrote:

Small amounts would not make a significant difference to your physical appearance (though there would still be some difference).


I don't know... have you heard the warnings on the topical(gel) testosterone supplements?
From WebMD...

Signs to Watch For

Side effects reported in children include

• inappropriate enlargement of the external sexual organs (penis or clitoris)

• premature development of pubic hair

• advanced bone age

• increased self-stimulation

• aggressive behavior

In most cases, the signs and symptoms lessened when the child was no longer exposed to the product. However, in a few cases, enlarged sexual organs did not fully return to the child's age-appropriate size and bone age remained greater than the child's chronological age.

Topical seems to be a higher risk, but there always seems to be a large risk for a small payoff with a lot of medications.

I think that we have a different definition of 'small amount', I was afraid of something like this happening :P.



seaturtleisland
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,243

19 Feb 2013, 5:41 pm

I don't think it would work the way you'd expect at all. High testosterone in the womb may influence brain development towards Autism but if you've already developed Autism I don't think changing your hormones could reverse it.

I have noticed changes in the way my Autism presents itself in the past year but that could be because I'm in a critical development phase just as easily as it could be the result of my gender transition.


Even if Autism could be altered by providing female hormones would you really want to do that? If I were a cisgender male I would probably be freaked out by the way I look now. It doesn't bother me because I'm really female and I like the way I look now but I don't think any of my brothers would like it.

It doesn't make sense to me why any male person with Autism would think it's worth it to go on full HRT just for the sake of reducing Autistic symptoms. It doesn't seem like it would be worth it if you didn't already want the other effects.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,574
Location: the island of defective toy santas

19 Feb 2013, 5:44 pm

i read someplace that smoking pot causes elevated estrogen levels in men.



ianorlin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 756

19 Feb 2013, 6:40 pm

Although have people studied autistics after a stroke and seen what happens to symptoms?



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,574
Location: the island of defective toy santas

19 Feb 2013, 6:46 pm

ianorlin wrote:
Although have people studied autistics after a stroke and seen what happens to symptoms?

(clicky)some superficial similarities between left-hemisphere stroke and autism symptoms



Tyri0n
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,879
Location: Douchebag Capital of the World (aka Washington D.C.)

19 Feb 2013, 6:55 pm

auntblabby wrote:
ianorlin wrote:
Although have people studied autistics after a stroke and seen what happens to symptoms?

(clicky)some superficial similarities between left-hemisphere stroke and autism symptoms


I think right hemisphere stroke is more similar to my autism symptoms, however. It probably depends on what type of autism you have.



RawSugar
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 1 Aug 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 168
Location: Alberta, Canada

19 Feb 2013, 7:13 pm

Women's perspective? No. I hold the male brain theory to be extremely flawed and naive. If it was true would we not see alleviation of symptoms in spectrum women on birth control (if we're talking minimal) or hormone replacement therapy (extreme)?



RawSugar
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 1 Aug 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 168
Location: Alberta, Canada

19 Feb 2013, 7:22 pm

I must do more research. Just found some interesting articles. Ohhhhhhhh.


_________________
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.