Classic Autism and Aspergers are they really the same thing?

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Yes I know the cover answer Autism is a spectrum and no two individuals are the same.


I also know Aspergers has been replaced with the term Autism Spectrum Disorder along with all other forms of Autism.

We all know what we mean classic Autism can be very different from person to person as can Aspergers.

In classic Autism there is a childhood speech delay in Aspergers there is not.

What I am asking could speech delay be just one Autism symptom that is present in some and not others?

Is Aspergers really just plain old Autism as the list of symptoms seems almost identical?

Also are people with low functioning Autism aware of it?

Yes.

While people with ongoing language delay clearly are different from those with no language delay, the subset of autistics who outgrow early language delays (often called HFA) do not seem to show any consistent differences, once they've caught up, from autistics with no language delay. And even those with ongoing language delays seem to differ more in degree than in kind - they have the same differences but more extreme (eg, sensory issues so severe they interfere with speech).



Aware of what? AS people being on the spectrum, or themselves being on it?

My impression is yes to both, although it's often hard to know for sure. I know many LFAs seem to react differently to me than to NTs, and often give me this 'look' when they see me doing something that they do. Then again, I stim more openly and obviously than most high functioning autistics, and increase my stimming when I'm in the presence of other autistics.

Regarding whether they know they're disabled, well, it'd be hard to miss, right? Doesn't take much cognitive ability to realize other people can talk and you can't, or to notice that others can dress themselves and you need their help to get dressed. I do know LFAs know they need help with many tasks, because they will often nonverbally ask for help, or else just sit and wait for you to do it, instead of trying to do it themselves. (In fact, many won't even try things they can do if it's easier to let someone else do it. If you're caring for a severely developmentally disabled person, it can be useful to wait before helping, to see if they'll decide to try to do it on their own.)

Probably most don't know what 'autism' is, but they do know they're different, and they can spot others who are like them.

Thanks Ettina for the careful and detailed answer.

I can not form relationships and I live with my parents and do not drive.

I have an above average IQ and I work.

To me Aspergers is just Autism.

I think understanding what goes on inside the brain of somebody with LFA would help me understand myself better.

I find that interesting that they react different to you as opposed to an NT.

This is a very interesting question. My gut feeling is Yes.

Yes, the speech delay really isn't significant. Communication difficulties ARE however.

(And that can cover a wide spectrum in itself.)

Personally I have a problem with the speech delay issue.

I was officially diagnosed as autistic...the only defining point that put me in the ASD box instead of the AS box was that I was largely non-verbal until the age of 7. When I did speak I used full sentences and used more complex language to explain more complex ideas than my NT peers, so how exactly was this a developmental delay? I was different to an NT child, not less than. If an NT child didn't learn to speak until they were 7 then that's a developmental delay, if an autistic child didn't feel like talking until they were 7 then that's not developmental...that's autism for ya!

I've heard a few stories of ASD kids who were non-verbal for years, like me, and who just suddenly shocked everyone by suddenly talking in coherent sentences - something 'clicked' with them that made them talk, maybe it's just that those labelled Asperger's 'clicked' earlier than those of us who are labelled as Autistic.

We are all autistic, I dislike this culture within our community where there is a dividing line between those with Asperger's and those with Autism - like people don't mind saying they're an aspie as it's 'cool' and shows they are unusual, nerdy, highly intelligent, etc. but they don't want to call themselves autistic as that implies a disability, mental delay, that someone is less-than. Even within autism groups where there are members more severely effected, more typically autistic or with lower IQ's than myself...when I correct people by pointing out 'I don't have Asperger's, I'm autistic' there is a silence and the way people talk to me changes - it's maddening. I've gone off on a bit of a tangent, but the point is I'd love to do away with Asperger's and have everyone identify as autistic without it having to be something shameful or implying we're worth less.

@Bloodheart - maybe that will happen more so now that AS & Autism have all been lumped together as ASD in the new DSM-V.

It'll take a while for old language & stigmas to filter out, but then everything will be ASD. Possibly one of the reasons they've now grouped everything together ?? Another main reason is that some support/aid agencies, government assistance, insurance plans etc would differentiate between the two and only offer necessary help and financial assistance to those diagnosed as Autistic vs. AS. Now that they're all ASD, there are more benefits & care options available to all.

I read this thread even though I didn't experience speech delay at all because one of my uncles did, one of my cousins' kids did, and one of my closest friends did - for even longer than my relatives. The only one that's still a child is my cousin's kid & so it's hard to know how high functioning he'll end up as a teen/adult. The other two are very high functioning people, especially my friend - who experienced the longest speech delay of the three. I don't see his traits as any different than mine. We have several traits in common, and many differences - but I do not see him as any lower functioning than I am.. in fact, in many ways he has his life together better than I do at the moment. He has different strengths/weaknesses as do I, etc - but I'm not so sure my math/science/geek abilities make me significantly different from him, neurologically or ASD classification wise. Maybe they do? But if they do, maybe they shouldn't, as in the grand scheme of things we're very comparable - both apples, so to speak, so it's apples to apples to say we're ASD.

So, based on that one trait alone, I don't see a difference between AS or A & it makes sense to just call it all ASD. However, even once the stigma of A is reduced by being all grouped together, there's still going to be some differentiation between HFA & LFA, but probably more so only at the extreme ends of the spectrum, I suppose.. but all of this is bound to have people in the middle splitting hairs over traits like this and debating whether they're considered HFA or LFA.

Meh, I just call my friend by his first name. So much simpler than labels.

Last edited by goldfish21 on 08 Mar 2013, 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

^Great post, goldfish.

I do believe that what sharkattack touches upon here is one of the main reasons they're revising the autistic spectrum for the DSM-V and folding all spectrum disorders into one autism spectrum disorder: the speech delay criterium was found to be too arbitrary to be meaningful in distinguishing Asperger syndrome as a separate disorder. After acquiring verbal communication, high functioning autistics are all too often indistinguishable from Aspergers.

I agree. It's like what Anmish (search for her on you tube) says about the 'spectrum' not being 1-dimentional as many think of it but actually being many-faceted so some are at the extreme end of the spectrum of speech impairment but don't stim much whereas others have a completely different balance of traits and their severity. Assuming I do actually get my diagnosis eventually, I certainly fit mostly at the high-function end although there are a few traits I have which are normally described as part of LFA. People are too complicated to place on a simple straight line of abilities and people on the spectrum are no different in that respect.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

Here, Here! I like that. And good for you!

And institutions seem to "need" to classify people are either "low-"functioning or "high"-functioning. So much so that it would almost be a political statement to describe oneself as middle-functioning.

Well I would have what use to be called Aspergers and I still live at home never had a relationship and I do not drive.

I know many people who have so called classic Autism have cracked all 3 things on my failure list.

My uncle also was a late speaker, ended up a gold miner. He could read patterns and knew where to look. He ended up with 138 mines, he did not work them, he found them then leased them out to greedy folks.
He spent most of his time alone in the woods.

As for not knowing when impaired? I did not know until I was bragging at work about how I understood how to tie my shoes correctly every time. People were nice about it but made it quite clear, at 43 this was not an accomplishment giving bragging rights.

I looked back a bit move objectively and forced myself to understand this was not just a temporary state. Always before every problem had an immediate cause and I would be fine later. Every single time, no connection between the ten and twenty daily fails.
The brain can do this, I still have a hard time occasionally with waiting to be normal.

Knowing I was permanently crazy would have driven me permanently crazy, so I always thought I was the very standard of normal for people everywhere.

According to Tony Attwood's book on Asperger's Syndrome, speech delay is a required criteria in the Christopher Gillberg diagnostic criteria for Asperger's. (Page 202)

Who cares, right? Who the hell is Gillberg anyway?

Of the Gillberg criteria, Tony Attwood says:

"the criteria of Christopher Gillberg, who is based in Sweden and London, remain those that most closely resemble the original descriptions of Asperger. Thus, these are the criteria of first choice for me and many experienced clinicians." (Page 36)

And:

"The diagnostic criteria of choice by many clinicians, especially in Europe and Australia, are those of Gillberg and Gillberg (1989) which represent more accurately the original descriptions of Asperger and the profile of abilities of children referred for a diagnostic assessment for Asperger’s syndrome." (Page 46).

The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome
http://www.peaknt.com/files/The%20Compl ... ttwood.pdf

Last edited by velocity on 08 Mar 2013, 3:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Kids with classic autism and speech delay can grow up to be indistinguishable from adults with AS. This is HFA group.

Meanwhile the book also lists out other sets of diagnostic criteria and states that there is debate as to which is best.

Also, he points out that there are often more autistic traits when AS kids are young that they outgrow by the time they're ~10 years old. Speech delay could be one of them vs. just things like hand flapping and such.

Indeed he does. I was merely making the point that speech delay probably isn't a good differentiator, and the inclusion of Gillberg was simply to underline that there are alternate and respected views.