Invisible Aspies?

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Read on another thread that invisible aspies tend to always be female? I can sure be an invisible aspie (I am female), but I can't be an invisible weirdo. People always think I am weird and different, but mostly people think I am shy and eccentric, the fact that I am into art just makes them think I am one of those "Eccentric types" which i think can be more a blessing than a curse.

But the point of this thread is, are females "invisible" because we adapt so well or because female and male gender roles are socially perceived so differently?

I used to wonder if I was actually invisable - if people could see me as I felt so isolated.

But I think in relation to your question, from what i've read it is much more subtle in many females genrally handle social situations better and better at mimicking ect, and then I guess there is the beilef that it affect more males than females too, which doesn't help and I'm not sure that it's even true. Maybe just that more males get diagnosed and more females dont get diagnosed

I was and still am invisable but I just appear weird and so stand out - I think for one guys are expected to act up cause were guys - girls are not - guys are generally more aggressive and girls are more passive - girls are also nurturing which to me makes a big difference - mothers are more socializing with one another and the daughters follow them - it also can make a diffenence in the depth that you are as an aspie - and other problems you may have - so just a few thoughts

Sometimes I wonder if I am only visible to my family. But then again they're all that matter. I also think it stems from the fact that people don't understand half of the things I say and the few friends I do have (4 to be exact) just get exhausted of me. Im sure I'm not the only one with these issues..

The sex difference is mostly down to socialising at a young age. Females are socialised more strongly and taught more on what is appropriate behaviours. I think mimicking behaviours are taught too, such as girls trying to be like their moms by wearing their heels and carrying baby dolls around like a mom. Boys do male behaviour but it seems less 'role developing' orientated which involves less mimicking as a result.

Females are basically forced to learn more social things which helps mask some of the social difficulty the female aspie will have.

So it's both.

Genders are seen differently and thus are treated (slightly) differently. As a result of different treatment they learn (slightly) different things.
Ive actually tried explaining my aspergers to mates before and they've said that's just typical guy behaviour and I am known to be gender queer so maybe they just assume I have some boyish behaviours due to that. Or it's just normal for guys so can't be too weird for girls in some cases.
I have to really explain it for them to understand it is different to being a 'typical male'. =.=

As far as I know, it has been hypothesised that, since girls are still socialised differently from boys, and since their socialisation is geared more towards cooperating (speaking in terms of broad generalisations), girls with AS are often more integrated into social groups by current default.

Another, though not contrasting but rather complementary, hypothesis is - again, as far as I know - that there is greater social pressure on girls to be inconspicuous. Less tolerance is shown for obvious deviations from the norm in areas that may be perceived as personal quirks, so they have to adapt as best possible to avoid punishment (in a literal sense, not as in "some people may not like you and that hurts"). Speaking from experience, adapting (= constant acting) comes at a high price: exhaustion; confusion; self-doubt - which results in stress - because you're never sure you're getting things right; being perceived as socially clumsy because even with practice, you only ever seem almost normal, but can never get it quite right; ultimately psychosomatic illnesses from the stress of years and years of pretending.

These are not things that only girls experience, but if we're looking at large numbers, then I will entirely agree that they're more likely to happen to girls than to boys. This is not to say that there is no pressure on boys; but where "eccentricity" is concerned, the pressure to conform rather than to act it out, in terms of averages at the societal level, is somewhat less severe on boys than on girls, which essentially goes back to plain old sexism.

And that way, you end up with lots of quietly suffering girls and, later, women with AS, who don't receive a diagnosis because they had to learn to navigate the world by pretending hard enough to be normal.

When I look at my life and the lives of the many women with AS I have communicated with in the past few months, I'm inclined to believe these hypotheses. A worryingly high number went through more psychiatrists (the only professionals who are officially allowed to diagnose it where I am located) to get an accurate diagnoses than most men did. Much of the problem seemed to stem from the forced normalcy they were socialised into - quite often by continuous punishment in childhood for acting as a child with AS would act, and because they simply weren't offered help and so had to sink or swim. Obviously, the ones I talked to swam, just like myself. The ones who sank may not be around to talk to anymore.

Not only females - Great blog here: http://www.aspiestrategy.com/2012/05/hi ... dults.html

I'm leaning towards perception, just from my personal experience. I never learned how to fake normal, but I'm very good at fading into the background and keeping quiet.

If a female doesn't understand a social situation it's the default assumption that she is pretending or being passive aggressive for some reaosn.

I'm continually punished for my aspergers symptoms that prevent me from understanding others (not the quirks like stimming, or engrossment in interests, these are fine generally). I'm told I'm faking not understanding flirting or when people are dangerous, or that I must not be that stupid. If people think my friendly behaviour is an invitation for sex and I'm surprised when they force themselves onto me for me not being fast acting enough, it was OBVIOUSLY me who led them on, and CLEARLY my fault for playing them along. And there's no question that I understood what was going on, I mean I'm a FEMALE, of course I know all of these unwritten rules.

If a guy does it it's more acceptable, he's just not used to girls, a bit sheltered, maybe he's just awkward. He might just be a plain average guy, seeing as they don't do those silly things anyway.
But a girl? Why it's in her very nature. The ovaries give you the gut response to deal with these situations. Of course I should be punished for not making use of the powers the ovaries bestown upon me.

>_<* Grr

To be honest I think a lot of it is perception. And a good portion of behaviour that backs up the perception is due to learnt behaviour outlined by myself and others of social treatment that differs among genders.

Also, the understanding for AS is from studying males, we don't know how it works on girls fully in comparison.

I think this is me, most of the time. Sometimes though, I get caught out at work or in weekend social situations and have that moment when people give me the "what the hell?" look.

I sometimes wonder if I am much less successful in concealing my quirks than I suppose, perhaps suffering from some sort of social version of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

But I think I am mostly an "Invisible aspie" -- I quite identify with the description in Tony Attwood's books of female aspies, and I think this is because developing a social life of some kind, learning how to behave so that I could have relationships, was a special interest for years.

I have Aspergers and Soial Axiety Disorder so not only do I feel asocially awkward, when I am in public I feel like every eyeball within 100 miles is scrutinizing and dissecting my brain. I wish I could go utside and feel like noone knows I exist but I keep becoming infatuated with women who really do behave as if I do not exist, and then I get urt so badly that it wrecks me for long periods of time emotionally

Thanks everyone for all your input it was.very interesting! I can agree with a great deal of it.

It is much more difficult to spot a female Aspie then a male and I haven't see many females on the Famous Aspies list either. That seems very sad.

What are you talking about?

I've had a lot of women I've interacted with instantly assume I was trying to make a move on them when I was only trying to be friendly. I'm talking about women I had zero interest in. Yet they seem to go on the defense and assume I have an ulterior motive, which in their minds justifies their hostility.

I've also had people assume the only reason I was being friendly with a woman was to "get in her pants."

So I don't think male aspies are immune to presumptions by NTs of the opposite sex about understanding "Sex Laws." Almost seems like in the NT world, men and women are only friendly with each other if they're sexually/romantically interested with one another.

Amazing article and amazing blog. I didn't know it. Thank you!

And by the way, I feel quite identified with 'Joe'. I can hardly believe that a professional therapist could say, quoted, "So Mr. Autistic is shaking because his wife got angry! Ha ha! Shouldn't you be indifferent and focusing on dinosaurs?".

In my country that would be a personal insult and it probably would have ended up being solved in the street. This therapist is quite lucky of living in a more civilized one.

I think that has different reasons.
Hans Asperger just wrote about boys. They seemed to be more "visible", but also because the diagnostic criterias are mostly the "male autistic problems" and how autistic females deal with their problems is mostly irgnored. Also because it was thought in the past that autism is mostly a male problem.
Now we still have more males diagnosed, but the females are catching up and it is more and more noticed that autistic girls are more "invisible" and deal differently with their problems.

So I personally think it's a combination out of different factors.