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rdos
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20 Mar 2013, 2:57 pm

This is the first update since 2007. This update removes some disproved ideas, and also introduces a new section that outlines how the original Neanderthal phenotype might have looked like.

Link: http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm



Tyri0n
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20 Mar 2013, 4:09 pm

rdos wrote:
This is the first update since 2007. This update removes some disproved ideas, and also introduces a new section that outlines how the original Neanderthal phenotype might have looked like.

Link: http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm


The Neanderthal hypothesis is interesting as extended to ADHD as well. Also the points about the high-meat diet in the link you gave. I have read studies hypothesizing that many children with ADHD are actually intolerant to certain plant acids and, thus, really ought not to be eating most vegetables, ESPECIALLY raw vegetables and fruits, including many preservatives and additives derived from these acids. Interestingly, some north-latitude veggies like turnips and cabbage do not have the same levels of these acids harmful to ADHD individuals. This would make perfect sense given the presence of Neanderthal genes since N's likely lived in a climate where few vegetables grew. I wonder if the same veggie intolerance is related to autism as well.

It could be neanderthals were actually more functional than most autistic people, but that the genes cause certain environmental factors to cause actual damage in the autistic brain that makes them quite different from neanderthals. It would be interesting to see what a healthy autistic person would function like. Sadly, I think there may not be very many, due to these environmental factors.



Ettina
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20 Mar 2013, 4:17 pm

The Neanderthal theory should be scrapped. Autism is no more common among northern europeans than in any other race. Clearly, it has nothing to do with Neanderthals.



eric76
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20 Mar 2013, 5:08 pm

There's one thing for sure -- special interests clearly does not imply rationality or expertise.



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20 Mar 2013, 5:17 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
It could be neanderthals were actually more functional than most autistic people, but that the genes cause certain environmental factors to cause actual damage in the autistic brain that makes them quite different from neanderthals. It would be interesting to see what a healthy autistic person would function like. Sadly, I think there may not be very many, due to these environmental factors.


That's pretty close to my pet theory on the subject, though I think the high-functioning aspie is probably (or is close to) a healthy autistic person. Thing is even a healthy autistic person would still be a misfit in society and likely suffer from things like depression, alienation, PTSD etc. for that reason.



Tyri0n
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20 Mar 2013, 7:14 pm

Nonperson wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
It could be neanderthals were actually more functional than most autistic people, but that the genes cause certain environmental factors to cause actual damage in the autistic brain that makes them quite different from neanderthals. It would be interesting to see what a healthy autistic person would function like. Sadly, I think there may not be very many, due to these environmental factors.


That's pretty close to my pet theory on the subject, though I think the high-functioning aspie is probably (or is close to) a healthy autistic person. Thing is even a healthy autistic person would still be a misfit in society and likely suffer from things like depression, alienation, PTSD etc. for that reason.


Or maybe not. Maybe healthy autistic people are all around us and, are in fact, considered geeky or BAP NT's who do not meet the criteria for a diagnosis of any disorder.

The reason why many of us who are high-functioning are likely not healthy is due to the presence of NLD. For those without it, maybe. I still think BAP is a healthy autistic.



cooldryplace
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20 Mar 2013, 8:09 pm

Ettina wrote:
The Neanderthal theory should be scrapped. Autism is no more common among northern europeans than in any other race. Clearly, it has nothing to do with Neanderthals.


Sources?



naturalplastic
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20 Mar 2013, 8:49 pm

cooldryplace wrote:
Ettina wrote:
The Neanderthal theory should be scrapped. Autism is no more common among northern europeans than in any other race. Clearly, it has nothing to do with Neanderthals.


Sources?


WOW!

You got some nerve!
Throwing THAT stone when you know damned well that you live in a glass house!

The global mental health industry is biased towards finding autism/aspergers among the affluent- which means finding it in rich countries (northern latitude Caucasian countries) and in affluent stratas within countries which tend to be White people and not minoriites.

So you have incomplete biased and crappy evidence - and you're asking HIM for a source?

You gotta be kidding.

That fact is no one knows what the racial distribution of spectrumites is, and whether the seeming correlation with northern latitude races is an artifact of incomplete data -or is real.

Its a young field of study.



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20 Mar 2013, 8:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
cooldryplace wrote:
Ettina wrote:
The Neanderthal theory should be scrapped. Autism is no more common among northern europeans than in any other race. Clearly, it has nothing to do with Neanderthals.


Sources?


WOW!

You got some nerve!
Throwing THAT stone when you know damned well that you live in a glass house!

The global mental health industry is biased towards finding autism/aspergers among the affluent- which means finding it in rich countries (northern latitude Caucasian countries) and in affluent stratas within countries which tend to be White people and not minoriites.

So you have incomplete biased and crappy evidence - and you're asking HIM for a source?

You gotta be kidding.

That fact is no one knows what the racial distribution of spectrumites is, and whether the seeming correlation with northern latitude races is an artifact of incomplete data -or is real.

Its a young field of study.


We do know that there is no proven correlation between races/neanderthal genes and autism so let's just drop this subject.



rdos
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21 Mar 2013, 2:25 am

Ettina wrote:
The Neanderthal theory should be scrapped. Autism is no more common among northern europeans than in any other race. Clearly, it has nothing to do with Neanderthals.


That is disproved in the Aspie Quiz paper. Not yet published, but regardless if it is published or not, the fact still stand that people of African descent has several magnitudes lower incidence of neurodiversity.

It's also not like you think that neurodiversity is highest in northern europeans. It is actually highest in native american indians.



rdos
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21 Mar 2013, 2:39 am

Tyri0n wrote:
It could be neanderthals were actually more functional than most autistic people, but that the genes cause certain environmental factors to cause actual damage in the autistic brain that makes them quite different from neanderthals. It would be interesting to see what a healthy autistic person would function like. Sadly, I think there may not be very many, due to these environmental factors.


One of the major environmental factors could be the loss of the Neanderthal mitochondria. There is some evidence that many of these issues in ASD could be due to mitochondria dysfunction.

Other than that, highly Neanderthal-like people cannot live healthy lives among NTs, but rather must isolate themselves (or partner with other Neanderthal-like people) or cope in order to thrive.



rdos
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21 Mar 2013, 2:42 am

eric76 wrote:
There's one thing for sure -- special interests clearly does not imply rationality or expertise.


Why do you think special interests is the primary marker? IMHO, special interests is just a peripheral trait related to hunting adaptations or courtship.



eric76
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21 Mar 2013, 3:20 am

rdos wrote:
Ettina wrote:
The Neanderthal theory should be scrapped. Autism is no more common among northern europeans than in any other race. Clearly, it has nothing to do with Neanderthals.


That is disproved in the Aspie Quiz paper. Not yet published, but regardless if it is published or not, the fact still stand that people of African descent has several magnitudes lower incidence of neurodiversity.

It's also not like you think that neurodiversity is highest in northern europeans. It is actually highest in native american indians.


From http://www.nimh.nih.gov/statistics/1AUT_CHILD.shtml:

Image

Several orders of magnitude?



eric76
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21 Mar 2013, 3:20 am

rdos wrote:
eric76 wrote:
There's one thing for sure -- special interests clearly does not imply rationality or expertise.


Why do you think special interests is the primary marker? IMHO, special interests is just a peripheral trait related to hunting adaptations or courtship.


Citations?



rdos
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21 Mar 2013, 4:07 am

eric76 wrote:
rdos wrote:
Ettina wrote:
The Neanderthal theory should be scrapped. Autism is no more common among northern europeans than in any other race. Clearly, it has nothing to do with Neanderthals.


That is disproved in the Aspie Quiz paper. Not yet published, but regardless if it is published or not, the fact still stand that people of African descent has several magnitudes lower incidence of neurodiversity.

It's also not like you think that neurodiversity is highest in northern europeans. It is actually highest in native american indians.


From http://www.nimh.nih.gov/statistics/1AUT_CHILD.shtml:

Image

Several orders of magnitude?


Your mixing things up. I never said anything about ASD. I clearly wrote "neurodiversity". The levels of ASD are affected by environmental factors and changing attitudes and diagnostic criteria, and thus are not useful to estimate Neanderthal heritage from. The Neanderthal theory deals with neurodiversity, not environmental factors in an ever-changing ASD diagnosis.



eric76
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21 Mar 2013, 4:17 am

rdos wrote:
eric76 wrote:
rdos wrote:
Ettina wrote:
The Neanderthal theory should be scrapped. Autism is no more common among northern europeans than in any other race. Clearly, it has nothing to do with Neanderthals.


That is disproved in the Aspie Quiz paper. Not yet published, but regardless if it is published or not, the fact still stand that people of African descent has several magnitudes lower incidence of neurodiversity.

It's also not like you think that neurodiversity is highest in northern europeans. It is actually highest in native american indians.


From http://www.nimh.nih.gov/statistics/1AUT_CHILD.shtml:

Image

Several orders of magnitude?


Your mixing things up. I never said anything about ASD. I clearly wrote "neurodiversity". The levels of ASD are affected by environmental factors and changing attitudes and diagnostic criteria, and thus are not useful to estimate Neanderthal heritage from. The Neanderthal theory deals with neurodiversity, not environmental factors in an ever-changing ASD diagnosis.


Perhaps you can provide your definition of "neurodiversity" for us. My understanding is that the term arose from the Autistic community to present or recognize the view that Autism is a natural condition on the same level as "normal".

Are you using the term in that same manner?

What evidence exists that suggest that there is less neurodiversity among Blacks and more among American Indians?