Social understanding and being mean

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So how are people when they have very good social skills?

To me, it seems like the most socially healthy/successful people are like this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JoGj_7wIoA[/youtube]


At the same time I consider this quite rude/evil, what you want to call it. The ordinary bully in school, I'd say.

If this is the end-goal of social understanding, do you see why I have a problem with it in the first place? Seems like it's all about being able to become the bully instead of being the one bullied.

On the other hand, I know many people with good social skills would simply consider this funny. Seems like being mentally/socially healthy is a lot about being mean. And they would say people who don't consider this funny are too sensitive and that there is something really wrong with them. I'm starting to believe they are right - autism is what's wrong!

How should I take this? Is considering this mean basically wrong? It's just funny?

I used to think the way you do about roasts. They struck me as mean and cruel bullying, but it is my understanding that participation is voluntary. Wiki says about roasts:

I would not enjoy being the subject of a roast, but I did find some of the jokes funny, I admit it. Some of them struck me as pretty horrible (especially the custody jokes and the jokes about Sheen's health and drug habits).

I do think there is a certain degree of emotional and social "health" or whatever where one can simply take teasing and jokes as teasing and jokes but not personally. It's something that I think is challenging for many on the spectrum for many reasons, like taking things literally, not understanding the context of such things, having too much history where negative things about us are stated seriously, etc.

When I think about it, isn't bullying just a part of the competition in the survival game? Who dares to put others down, who is the most dangerous verbally/socially etc. Seems like it is just a way of sorting out the "weak minds" who cannot understand the subtleties of social interaction (among others autistics). Those who don't understand will soon enough be excluded from the "socially healthy company".

So the reason why I could find this mean is just because I realize they are exactly "after" people like me?

I begin to suspect it.

I know it's a roast in the video, but I think we have all experienced this kind of social interaction happening at gatherings, in school etc. Joking by finding subtle ways of putting others down.

Perhaps these jokes are supposed to be jokes - but underneath that is the reality of a social game of "weeding out" the socially weakest.

But then again, this also happens with looks, wealth and all other kinds of things, I guess it's no different.

When you understand life it seems like it's nothing but a constant battle. In love, at the job, everywhere. Unless one doesn't understand it or accept the superficial attitude.

But it seems like a "measure" for your social skills to some degree is how much you laugh watching that video. I'm split. I find it funny, but at the same time mean.

I think this is one of the many excuses people offer for bullying, but the reality is that bullying is antisocial behavior that is toxic to those impacted by it. It's not socially adaptive behavior, at least not healthy behavior. It is also not strictly directed at those who cannot understand the subtleties of social interaction. It's directed at those who are perceived as not fitting in, which is why LGBT youth are another big target for bullies.



I don't think we have experienced this kind of social interaction. This is a scheduled, organized event during which it is understood that people will make jokes at the expense of the guest of honor. It is meant as a form of respect, and the people subjected to them are typically quite successful.

In contrast, what happens in school ranges from "good natured teasing" to "bullying" and these things may even look similar to those on the outside, and I suspect that one's experiences may inform how one perceives such things. As recently as three years ago, I found the teasing in my WoW guild directed at some people to be nastiness and bullying, and found it difficult to separate the ribbing I'd get for playing a gnome from the malicious treatment I've received in the past. No one asked me if I liked such teasing (I don't). But a roast is a situation where everyone involved is there voluntarily.



How do you conclude that it is a measure of your social skills? It seems to me that it is a measure of your sense of humor. Not how much of one you have, but the sort of things you find entertaining.

I am not sure this is an example of "weeding out the socially weakest." I am not sure that the "socially weakest" is the target for such weeding out. I think that what serves as targeting is difference and the social acceptability of targeting that difference.

I guess I may be too disagreeable:

I agree that the roast reflects a certain level of social ability and understanding. It's probably easier for people who are more socially capable and successful than it is for autistic people.

Have you noticed that sometimes people interact with each other in a roast-like way, though, in everyday conversation? They banter by putting each other down in a joking way. I find this maddening. I hate it when people do this and if they try to include me I get upset and get laughed at for taking them too seriously.

Last edited by daydreamer84 on 17 Jun 2013, 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

The video is hilarious! Thx for posting it, I needed something fun right now

I don't have any problems with what they're saying about Charlie Sheen, nor do I find it rude, evil or mean. It's a roast and a good one. Public figures have to be able to take things like that, or they need to find some other line of work. There are comic (satire) shows that are all about public figures, especially politicians, and make fun of them and other events in the news. I'm sure they have shows like that where you live, like we do here. They're great fun. Those shows are much the same as a roast, just not about one single famous person. You will often see similar (but way shorter) at weddings, especially the toast when mentioning the man.

I keep noticing that some Aspies cannot take a personal joke at all, and quite a few of them are so full of moral indignation (IDK what else to call it) that any possible perceived slight they see, including innocent jokes and pranks that no-one else has any issues with, sets them off.. I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm saying this because you're young and you can still overcome the worst of it. You seem bright so I assume you know this already; I just wanna make sure. If you can't take the joke, then pretend you can. Also: It's perfectly fine to be open about these thoughts and theories here, but don't go into the physical world saying these kinds of things, you'll only make yourself a target for it. You can't change human nature (and in this case I say thank heavens for that, because that would take the fun out of life; bantering is so much fun).
Most people can take a joke (or fake it) and won't get their knickers in a twist over it. They even contribute. Like when a coworker of my mother was going in for a brain scan and was nervous about it. My mother tried to reassure her and said: "I'm sure they won't find anything."
"Thanks!" the coworker replies sarcastically, making a joke out of the double meaning of the statement.
Another example was not too long ago we were supposed to eat dinner together but I had a killer head ache and went to bed for a while in the hopes of getting rid of it. I woke up a while afterwards and went into the kitchen where she was cleaning the oven. She turned to me and said !Now I'm really glad to see you!" (because she was hoping I'd wake up on my own so she didn't have to go wake me up for us to eat together), and I knew very well what she meant, but I played it as a joke and said "Kryss i taket!". I have no idea how to translate that; it's an expression of surprise at something that happens once in a blue moon.
The next time I saw her, I said "yeah, now you're not happy to see me".
She got it, yet she said "I didn't mean it like that."
"Suuure you didn't, " I laughed. Had I been around people I didn't know so well I would've played the sarcasm part rather than the "woe be me" part.

Oops, I just noticed that you have posted a new post while I was writing this, and yes, life is a constant battle. In the western world you usually don't have to fight for your life, but you always have to fight for your standing and acceptance. If you're gonna recat negatively to these things, you're just telling them that you really aren't one of them.

I watched first minute of it and it looks like to me they were all enjoying it so it's not really bullying. It's like how black people can call each other a n****r or how people can call each other ret*d and not get hurt by it and they don't mind it. I have seen people insult each other and be fine with it so I don't see it as bullying or them being mean if they don't mind it.

The ability to playfully tease, as well as enjoy when others tease you, is a very important social skill. This skill is called banter, and is a very important skill for making friends, particularly if you are male. Using banter shows people that you don't take things too seriously, which puts people at ease. Making people relax around you is how you get people to like you, and by extension, how you make friends.

For people who grew up with an excessive level of teasing / bullying, I can see how this is so off-putting (I, for one, would not like to be in the hotseat. These folks have enjoyed incredible fame and wealth and this is a way to voluntarily take themselves down a notch! They all take it in stride, so I think it's fine to laugh!
(plus, you can't ignore the fact that some of the roastees are sleazy and/or have done some pretty morally questionable things...)

I agree with this to a point. There is a time where people should speak up if something really bothers them, but there's ways to approach this other than outright indignation if it does happen.
If someone is going to get on a soapbox about everything, then there might be a limited ability to keep things in some kind of perspective.
As for roasts, they aren't ganging up on some hapless person. Everyone walks in with full knowledge that hideous things are going to be said that are meant in good humor.

+1. Many of the people I hang out with do this kind of stuff...and to them, I'll do it back. My boyfriend and I do this quite a lot to each other, too. It took me quite a while to learn it though because I used to take it seriously until I found out a purpose for it: to display comfort and ease around each other. A way to spot it is if a person who knows you well has happy/comfortable looking body language and a smirk on their face but their verbal message sounds a little insulting.

Kids did this me in my childhood and I took it all so seriously. I would have hurt feelings and I would get very confused when they would be nice to me and then mean. I don' know how much of the bullying I got was bullying or not. But when I would be mean to other kids because I was doing how I was treated, it didn't go well for me.

Qawer,

One thing to keep in mind about people who are socially mean is that they will often try to rationalize it or somehow make it your fault. The difference between someone who respects you and someone who really only cares about scoring points by poking at you is that the former will stop when you ask them to stop, while the latter will make a blaming excuse like "can't you take a joke?" and possibly step it up to get even stronger reactions from you. My mother's ex-husband - a diagnosed psychopath - does the second one all the time.

Some people have fairly invasive ideas about what others should be willing to put up with from them. The important thing is to maintain strong boundaries.

Thanks for your answers.

From your answers I realize my social competence really is worse than I would like it to be.

Probably also why I never felt I could call anyone a "friend". The concept doesn't come natural to me at all.

I see a part of the reason is that I'm too uptight as it was mentioned. I've learned how to change this, but it's by conscious effort. This also means that I do not put real emotion into it (it's "faking it"), and without genuine emotion put into it you don't really see girlfriends, friends etc. as truly important. You don't truly connect with them or love them. It's a big issue for me.

Do any of you relate to not being able to have genuine emotions in relation to this common form of social interaction?

To some degree being what could appear to me as being a "smartass" seems the right way to be, to be accepted/feel good. More superficial, less thoughtful.

At least I've really begun to understand my real problem, that's a good first step. Social competence is so important for feeling good.

It's just so difficult for me to internalize this social competence, because I think of it as being evil. Don't want to be evil.

Thanks again for the answers, more very welcome.

I hate that and I can't stand it. I'm not sure if that was caused by my getting bullied or made my getting bullied worse. When people are mean to me like that I take that to mean that they don't like me and/or they are an abusive person. If they try to say they were just joking I think they are just trying to fend off accusations of bullying.

I only ever watched one roast, the one for Flavor Flav. I suppose it was funny and it would take a lot to shame that guy and he enjoyed it but I'd never want to be a target of one myself.