High emotional empathy: requirement, generalization, false?

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Take these scenarios:

Assume there's a guy named Andy and he was suggested a diagnosis of Asperger in his early teens.

Like presumably with some autists, Andy sometimes has violent outbursts. (Yes, I realize that there isn't necessarily a link between autism and violence.) In these violent outbursts, he sometimes hurts someone else, and after doing so, realizes that they are distressed, but does not feel emotionally concerned. For example, as a child, Andy broke a guy's leg by pushing him off of a playground tower, presumably realized the guy was then in distress, but Andy felt no concern about it. He also beat his mother and threatened her with a knife on several occasions as a teen and young adult, and realized she was distressed, but again, did not feel sorry for her.

Also, when Andy sees other people in distress that were not hurt by him specifically - for example, people dying in 9/11, mass shootings, and natural disasters - he does not feel emotionally concerned, and sometimes he even notes that he enjoys watching it or reading about it in the news. When he is walking around in the city and sees someone dead from a car accident lying on the pavement, he takes a glance and keeps on walking, with no expression or opinion. He also jokes about his dead pets and relatives; for example, after one of them had a heart attack, he jokes about her weight and eating habits.

Surely all of this indicates low emotional empathy? Or am I misunderstanding something about this? Presumably there are people like Cho and Lanza, who may have been diagnosed with autism or Asperger because of certain social deficits or a general lack of interest in being social, but who are also emotionally cold?

So is high emotional empathy
(a) an essential feature of autism - so people like the above aren't really on the austim spectrum
(b) a generalization - most autists have high emotional empathy, some are closer to neurotypicals in this respect, while others are colder
(c) mostly untrue - most autists actually have lower emotional empathy than neurotypicals do, given the same realization of anyone's distress
(d) a falsity - autists have low emotional empathy, and any study suggesting otherwise is invalid

I find (a) and (d) unlikely and would guess that it's either (b) or (c), but I assume that a lot of people here may be educated on this matter, so I would like to hear your opinions. Thank you very much.

E)- Through the percentage has never been calculated, it is assumed that there are almost as many autists with high emotional empathy as autists with low emotional empathy, as both have been reported in high frequency amungst the population. Also, many autists report having high emotional empathy in some areas and low emotional empathy in others (I, for example, can watch violent movies with ease but am somewhat disturbed by violence in real life).

This thread may be of help to you: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt169811.html

Hi, thanks for your reply, and the link; I should have also touched on the subdivision of emotional empathy into empathic concern (sympathy) and personal distress (self-centered feelings of discomfort in witnessing someone else in distress).

True, the percentage has never been calculated. However, from what I have read, it appears that the general perception, based on scientific studies and others' comments, is that the typical if not defining combination in autists is low cognitive empathy and high emotional empathy, with high emotional empathy being a result of both high empathic concern and high personal distress, or, at the least, high personal distress.

But my assumption is that if someone witnessed someone getting physically or mentally hurt or abused yet felt neither personally distressed nor sympathetic although they realized that the person being hurt is distressed, then that would suggest not only low empathic concern (lack of sympathy) but also low personal distress (lack of self-centered discomfort), meaning definite low emotional empathy.

Therefore, to me, cases like the above would seem to suggest that autists can have definite low emotional empathy (i.e. as a result of both low empathic concern and low personal distress), but what I've read suggests otherwise, or at least that it is very unlikely, although I've perceived apparent evidence to the contrary in a number of cases.

Last edited by dri on 27 Jun 2013, 5:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.

You are confusing empathy with sympathy.



Most autistics care if they know someone is distressed, even more than NTs.
From the thread WerewolfPoet mentioned:

Apparently tests show that it's not the standard for autistics, so why does it matter? Of course autistics can have low sympathy. We are individuals.

Your friend andy seems to have psychopathy not as

I feel, I empathise, I have compassion. My GF has referred to me as "an Empath". Sometimes though, I straight up just don't care. I see much of what I shall refer to as "mainstream demanded empathy" as unjustified mawkishness, tbh. Sickly faux emotions driven by our dearly beloved morally bankrupt media. There are occasions when not giving a fig is, to my mind, an expected and reasonable element of the human condition.

Having said that, I was fairly utterly emotionless about anything but my pets and direct affairs of the heart until one burnout since which I've been almost a "victim" to my emotions, so perhaps I've been simply protecting myself on a subconscious level.

Other peoples emotions, especially strong ones being projected in my vicinity can be hell. I literally can't stand to be around people who are fighting, for example.

I think there's a difference between what we are taught about empathy, and what empathy actually is.

Study sizes are small, but the studies I've found that separate emotional and cognitive empathy separately indicate that cognitive empathy is typically impaired in Aspergers, but that emotional empathy is similar to that in the normal population.

So, I'm going with (b).

In my own experience, I'd say that my wife and I are pretty much reversed here...

...she has moderate emotional empathy and minimal cognitive empathy.
...I have moderate cognitive empathy and low emotional empathy.

...so she freaks out while watching relatives die and I fetch tea. (old age happens...)
...and I watch out for social blunders while she lectures dying women on diet.

--Argyle

Sympathy seems to be similar to the normal population. So, various amount.

(Empathy being impaired; from less to very little.)

Well, I was curious. What I read suggests that low cognitive empathy and high emotional empathy is pretty much the standard combination in people diagnosed with AS/ASD. Yet if there are people diagnosed with AS/ASD who exhibit the opposite end of emotional empathy, that seems to be a pretty significant, neurologically-based deviation from a characteristic (if not defining) trait of AS/ASD. I have yet to come across any study explaining this deviation.


Can someone have both Asperger and psychopathy? If people can exhibit autistic traits and have low emotional empathy plus an antisocial personality, that seems possible.

I understand that the subject of autism and empathy is an ongoing field of research. Thanks for the responses.

Sociopathy/psychopathy/whatever is its own distinct neurodiverse condition. Researchers can't seem to agree what it is, but many of the found differences are opposites to autistics. I guess someone could be born with both, as autism is so heterogeneous. It is not commonly co-occuring with ASD, but it is with ADHD, and about 30% of autistics have ADHD.
But someone can show sociopathic behavior without being one. I guess the lack of moral/conscience is the defining aspect of sociopathy for many... The anterior cingulate controls moral etc, and antidepressants, uppers, head injuries and much more affect the anterior cingulate and can cause "acquired sociopathy".
Anyway, "flat affect" and little emotional reaction is pretty standard for autistics. The studies have shown low cognitive empathy but not necessarily high affective empathy. Also, there are subgroups of autistics - over half (the numbers vary) have alexithymia too, and recent research accuse the alexithymics of lowering the empathy scores for all autistics.
There's a big difference between (perceived) indifference and sadism - you shouldn't judge your friend too harshly.