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Tyri0n
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07 Jul 2013, 11:54 pm

For those who don't want to read the articles, it is basically that:

1. Autism is an inflammatory disease

2. Studies show that inflammation in other diseases may be caused by a microbial deprivation, meaning our world is too clean and hygienic, and we aren't exposed to enough parasites and microbes when we're young, which leaves us with an immune system that overreacts to stuff, thus causing inflammation behind autism, allergies, and a number of other things. One version says that our immune system is not properly "trained" as a result of the deprivation when young, so our cytokines overreact like an autoimmune disorder (see this book for a good description: http://www.amazon.com/Infectious-Behavi ... B005S8P3BA). The version quoted in the New York Times says that actual parasite infection limited inflammation in our ancestors.

3. This is supported by the lower prevalence of autism in rural areas and third world countries.

From The New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/opini ... d=all&_r=0

Quote:
Scientists have repeatedly observed that people living in environments that resemble our evolutionary past, full of microbes and parasites, don’t suffer from inflammatory diseases as frequently as we do. Generally speaking, autism also follows this pattern ... at least one Western doctor who specializes in autism has explicitly noted that, in a Cambodian population rife with parasites and acute infections, autism was nearly nonexistent. For autoimmune and allergic diseases linked to autism, meanwhile, the evidence is compelling. In environments that resemble the world of yore, the immune system is much less prone to diseases of dysregulation. Generally, the scientists working on autism and inflammation aren’t aware of this — or if they are, they don’t let on. But Kevin Becker, a geneticist at the National Institutes of Health, has pointed out that asthma and autism follow similar epidemiological patterns. They’re both more common in urban areas than rural; firstborns seem to be at greater risk; they disproportionately afflict young boys. In the context of allergic disease, the hygiene hypothesis — that we suffer from microbial deprivation — has long been invoked to explain these patterns. Dr. Becker argues that it should apply to autism as well.

....Some years back, he began comparing wild sewer rats with clean lab rats. They were, in his words, “completely different organisms.” Wild rats tightly controlled inflammation. Not so the lab rats. Why? The wild rodents were rife with parasites. Parasites are famous for limiting inflammation.

Humans also evolved with plenty of parasites. Dr. Parker and many others think that we’re biologically dependent on the immune suppression provided by these hangers-on and that their removal has left us prone to inflammation. “We were willing to put up with hay fever, even some autoimmune disease,” he told me recently. “But autism? That’s it! You’ve got to stop this insanity.”


And here is a more scientific article on the hygiene hypothesis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2048743/

To me, it seems that obsessive cleanliness almost to an annoying level is found disproportionately among the white upper middle class in the U.S., the population most at risk for autism, according to studies. Those people are such annoying pricks. I've been unfortunate to be roommates with some of them. I think using that much cleaning solution THAT frequently (wiping the counter 4 times a day) is HARMFUL to health. Also, 19th century scientists observed that "savant idiots" typically were found only among the wealthy (I posted this awhile back: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt222687.html).



Fnord
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07 Jul 2013, 11:59 pm

What basis is used to assume that Autism is an inflammatory disease in the first place?

Funny ... I don't feel inflamed ... or diseased, either ...



Tyri0n
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08 Jul 2013, 12:10 am

Fnord wrote:
What basis is used to assume that Autism is an inflammatory disease in the first place?

Funny ... I don't feel inflamed ... or diseased, either ...


There have been a number of autopsies on individuals with autism of various ages that have found this. Also studies finding inflammation in the pre-natal environment or even the mother herself that is passed epigenetically into the fetus' immune system. The Patterson book I linked goes into this in great detail while the New York Times article discusses it a little bit.

Accessible article:

http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Focus-Narrows.asp

Scientific article:

"Neuroglial Activation and Neuroinflammation in the Brain of Patients with Autism"

http://revitalair.com/pdf/tratamientos_ ... Autism.pdf



GregCav
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08 Jul 2013, 12:11 am

I was born in a country town in the 60's.
Cleanliness with two boys is a high improbability; aka, not likely.

I can see a correlation with regard to some "observed traits". But that is a long way from understanding why those traits exist from the point of view of the Autistic person.

I can't see this theory getting anywhere... lol



Verdandi
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08 Jul 2013, 12:23 am

That correlates inflammation in the brain with autism, but not as a causative factor.



Fnord
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08 Jul 2013, 12:24 am

Correlation is not causation.



Tyri0n
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08 Jul 2013, 12:35 am

More direct explanatory discussions linked below. Besides, there have been a number of rodent studies where induced inflammation caused autistic behaviors: https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2013/web ... 12373.html

One where the hypothesis was even tested with a successful treatment of autistic behaviors in rodents: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 182019.htm

More explorations of the inflammation-autism link by peer-reviewed scientific publications:

Prenatal inflammation linked to autism risk

http://www.nih.gov/news/health/jan2013/niehs-24.htm

Neuro-inflammation, blood-brain barrier, seizures and autism
http://www.jneuroinflammation.com/content/8/1/168

And a proposed mechanism:
http://www.jneuroinflammation.com/content/10/1/46:

Quote:
Increasing evidence points to some immune dysfunction/inflammation in ASD [16,17]. The markers of inflammation identified in the brain and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) of many ASD patients include TNF, IL-6 and monocyte chemotactic protein 1 (MCP-1), the latter of which also is chemotactic for mast cells [18]. Pro-inflammatory cytokine mRNA (IL-1α, IL-1β, IL-6 and TNF-α) is increased in brain inflammation and has been associated with hippocampal and cerebral damage [8]. Mast cells are a rich source of IL-6 and TNF [19]. In fact, mast cells are the only immune cells that store pre-formed TNF and can release it rapidly upon stimulation [20].

Mast cells and cytokines such as IL-6 and TNF are also implicated in disruption of the blood–brain barrier (BBB) [21-23], which may be malfunctioning or leaky in ASD as evidenced by the presence of circulating auto-antibodies directed against the fetal brain proteins [24-27]. We had reported that the cytokine IL-33 synergizes with inflammatory neuropeptides to stimulate mast cells and result in increased vascular permeability [28]. IL-33 has been considered an alarmin, acting through mast cells to alert the innate immune system [29,30], and has recently been linked to brain inflammation [31-33].


I think I could quote a million studies, and some of you people would just find ways to try and dismiss them. Why? Not sure exactly. Some of you seem to believe that autism is God's gift to mankind. Or that autism is the next step in Evolution.

Or something.



Verdandi
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08 Jul 2013, 12:38 am

We'll see how the human trials pan out.



Verdandi
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08 Jul 2013, 12:39 am

Tyri0n wrote:
I think I could quote a million studies, and some of you people would just find ways to try and dismiss them. Why? Not sure exactly. Some of you seem to believe that autism is God's gift to mankind. Or that autism is the next step in Evolution.

Or something.


Neither of those is true for me. What is true for me is that I have encountered numerous quack-science theories about the etiology and treatment of autism, to the point that anything that sounds like those theories and treatments makes me rather skeptical.

Or to put it briefly and bluntly: I'll believe it when I see it.



PresidentPorpoise
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08 Jul 2013, 2:43 am

Don't really have the time to look into your links just now, and I'm not sure that I'm knowledgeable enough about the subject to assess the validity of the claims. But I think that some of your arguments supporting the hypothesis are flawed, specifically those relating to the lower incidence of autism in developing countries/rural areas, and its prevalence in middle class white families. How do we know that it isn't that middle class white people with autism are more likely to be diagnosed than people with autism from a developing country or rural area?

Edit: And the thing about the "idiot savants" does not seem to be very applicable here. First off, we are undeniably better off with the possible over-cleanliness now than we were back in the nineteenth century when people died of cholera contracted from contaminated wells, etc. Second, and more to the the point, 19th century scientists probably weren't entirely unbiased towards the social class from which many of them came themselves. "Idiot savants" in the upper classes would have been wealthy enough to support themselves without having to function at the same level as other people, right? But, potential "idiot savants" from the lower classes who weren't capable of supporting themselves without large inheritances, would very likely have ended up desperately poor if not out on the streets, and they probably weren't terribly well educated, so even if an illiterate individual were able to nurture some sort of savant-like talent, I imagine that it probably wouldn't be seen as intellectual enough by the scientists of the day to warrant being seen as a savant-like talent, and thus the "idiot savants" of the lower classes were probably simply deemed "idiots" or "that beggar on the side of the road".

I also think that you're creating a false dichotomy here between people who think that this hypothesis is valid, and people who believe absurd things such as autism being the next step in human evolution.



thepractitioner27
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08 Jul 2013, 3:24 am

I'd like to point out that Dr. Hans Asperger wrote in his original paper:

"We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfil their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers."

Autism Spectrum Disorders may well actually not be a disease in its entirety, but a natural variation such that there are benefits it can produce to humanity as a whole.

That being said, I would like to point out that there are a few sources which have pointed out that there has been an apparent rise in the number of people with ASDs world wide in the past decade or so, such as

Baron-Cohen S, Klin A (2006). "What's so special about Asperger Syndrome?" (PDF). Brain Cogn 61 (1): 1–4. doi:10.1016/j.bandc.2006.02.002. PMID 16563588

There may be several reasons for this, such as that the benefits of Autism Spectrum Disorders are now more necessary than ever, and Asperger's/Autism really is a step up in human evolution. Alternatively, if the inflammation hypothesis is true, then this newer climate of wiping out too many bacteria, is still allowing for ASDs to increase in number, and hence natural selection is still taking effect.

Natural Selection, as Darwin originally put it, is simply that those traits that allow for the best adaption in an area, will out-compete and survive, traits that don't fare as well IN THAT AREA!

So I would argue that either way, evolution and natural selection are favouring Autism Spectrum Disorders, if only to give humanity a wakeup call with regard to some of the problems it is facing, be it through alerting us to the issues regarding killing off too many bacteria, or by allowing the promulgation of certain heightened analytical capabilities that come with some ASDs, to hopefully provide workable solutions to other problems that humanity is facing.

To sum up, I'm saying that ASDs may or may not be the next step in human evolution, but evolution is certainly favoring ASDs at this time, regardless of the reason.



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08 Jul 2013, 6:18 am

Tyri0n wrote:
Fnord wrote:
What basis is used to assume that Autism is an inflammatory disease in the first place?

Funny ... I don't feel inflamed ... or diseased, either ...


There have been a number of autopsies on individuals with autism of various ages that have found this. Also studies finding inflammation in the pre-natal environment or even the mother herself that is passed epigenetically into the fetus' immune system. The Patterson book I linked goes into this in great detail while the New York Times article discusses it a little bit.

Accessible article:

http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Focus-Narrows.asp

Scientific article:

"Neuroglial Activation and Neuroinflammation in the Brain of Patients with Autism"

http://revitalair.com/pdf/tratamientos_ ... Autism.pdf


I think there could be some merit to linking maternal inflammation to a child's autism, at least in some cases. I had sub-clinical chronic inflammation before I ever got pregnant. It was remarked on at a series of annual medical exams by doctors who said they "saw this all the time but it is only something to worry about if it gets much worse". It was nothing to worry about until years later when I had an autistic kid in school and suddenly (over about a month) also had rheumatoid arthritis.

When the research you are citing came out, I did wonder if my adult onset rheumatoid arthritis and my daughter's autism sprang from the same previously sub-clinical inflammation. I don't think it was lack of dirt exposure with me. My parents were pro-dirt (they equated it with outdoor exercise, not germs) and I have two of the (asymptomatic) infections associated with grubby childhoods- CMV and EBV*. It is entirely possible that my chronic sub-clinical inflammation came from one of them. What I don't have is parasites. Parasites dampen the immune system (to protect themselves) and a lack of parasites coupled with invisible infections that don't dampen the immune system could be causative. It might also be diet or other environmental factors.

So I think maternal inflammation is something that should be looked into further but they shouldn't try to pin all the inflammation on the Hygeine Hypothesis nor should they try to come up with a universal theory that applies to all autism cases**. I think it will ultimately prove to have many causes, as chronic inflammation itself has many causes.

*not that either virus is found in dirt but a pig pile of filthy children (that was us) with moms not wiping faces every 10 minutes will pass it to each other

**to be fair, they didn't, they only claimed some



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08 Jul 2013, 7:33 am

I wouldn't rule out a connection with inflammation in some way. However, why isn't the entire population in the developed world autistic in that case? Are you/they saying that only people with certain genetics will succumb to the inflammation and become autistic?

The thing is, that as autism seems to have a variety of components and a variety of genes involved, I don't think it can be so simple as to say that all autism (or perhaps even a certain type of autism) is caused by inflammation.

Maybe it plays a part when a whole host of other things (including genetics) create the perfect storm.


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08 Jul 2013, 9:53 am

Fnord wrote:
Correlation is not causation.


True, but is also the case that causation cannot exist without correlation. So, correlation CAN be causation but is not necessarily causation.



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08 Jul 2013, 10:03 am

Fnord wrote:
What basis is used to assume that Autism is an inflammatory disease in the first place?

Funny ... I don't feel inflamed ... or diseased, either ...


Fnord, I don't have to assume that my autism is an inflammatory condition; I know mine is. As I have learned to keep my chronic inflammation problems under control better, my autism has also become much more manageable. I'm hardly sure of the details, but there is absolutely a strong correlation in my case.

I'm not saying this is the case for everybody, but it is the case for me. And I doubt I'm unique in this respect.

I must say I'm not at all sure that cleanliness has much to do with things. My mother was a terrible housekeeper, and I'm sure as an infant I was regularly surrounded by filth. My best guess is that the exponential increase in inflammatory problems, and not just autism, may have something to do with the purified air most of us breathe in constantly (i.e., central air conditioning and heating); and also the antibiotics--and I also suspect, various food additives, particularly preservatives--that may do damage to the mother's bacterial gut flora during gestation, as well as the baby's during its first months and years.

One curious thing I have observed in my own case is that when I catch come kind of bug (a cold or flu), which isn't often due to my hyped-up immune system, is that my inflammatory problems lessen substantially, and return as my body fights off the bug.

I've found pills from the doctor do little for my inflammatory or autism problems. What works for me is a modified anti-inflammatory diet, with special attention paid to consuming lots of probiotic foods and, surprisingly, peppermint oil. Both have done wonders for me. I'm fifty-one now and feel better than I ever have.



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08 Jul 2013, 10:57 am

Thelibrarian wrote:
Fnord, I don't have to assume that my autism is an inflammatory condition; I know mine is. As I have learned to keep my chronic inflammation problems under control better, my autism has also become much more manageable. I'm hardly sure of the details, but there is absolutely a strong correlation in my case.


I am not saying that you are wrong, but it also possible that the actions you are taking are also alleviating your autism symptoms without the two being connected. It is almost like saying, "I lost weight, my knees don't hurt as much. I find it easier to breathe as well. I guess when my knees stopped hurting it helped out my lungs." There are many benefits to a better diet, but that doesn't mean that the benefits cause one another.


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