Board index › General Discussion › General Autism Discussion

The autism spectrum vs. schizophrenic autism

Page 1 of 1 [ 6 posts ] 

Previous topic | Next topic

beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

27 Oct 2013, 9:14 pm

Schizophrenic autism is a real condition. It's what people on the schizophrenia spectrum suffer from.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489853/

Here's a quote discussing the social aspect of schizophrenic autism:

Quote:
"What is it that I really lack? Something so small, so comic, but so unique and important that you cannot live without it [...]. What I lack really is the 'natural evidence' [...]. It has simply to do with living, how to behave yourself in order not to be pushed outside society. But I cannot find the right word for that which is lacking in me [...]. It is not knowledge, it is prior to knowledge; it is something that every child is equipped with. It is these very simple things a human being has the need for, to carry on life, how to act, to be with other people, to know the rules of the game." [...] Another patient writes to his friend: "For your happiness, your lenience and your security, you can thank 'a something' of which you are not even conscious. This 'something' is first of all that which makes lenience possible. It provides the first ground" (24, italics added).


It looks a lot like the autism spectrum, doesn't it? Apparently, there are also world and self aspects to it, which may not overlap with the autism spectrum?

Could someone better spot the similarities and differences?



beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

27 Oct 2013, 9:27 pm

I was also looking at these terms in Japanese. Apparently, the word for schizophrenic autism in Japanese is simple yet distinctive: it is jihei (自閉). The first character means "self" and the second character means "closed/shut," so it means "self-shut." The Digital Daijisen, a Japanese dictionary, defines jihei as, "One of the main symptoms of schizophrenia. A state in which a person greatly distances him/herself from the external world and social interactions, and with his/her dreams and pain becomes locked in his/her internal world."

There is a similar term, jiheishou (自閉症). The first 2 characters represent "self-shut" like above, but there is a third character, meaning "disorder." So it means "self-shut disorder." This term refers to autism as it is understood on this site.

So it looks like Japanese has 2 similar terms, but they point to different things.



IntellectualCat
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 175

27 Oct 2013, 10:28 pm

Although I would see that schizophrenic autism might cause symptoms similar to those on the autistic spectrum, the cause of it seems different. Autistic spectrum disorders stem from problems with theory of mind, while according to that article, schizophrenic spectrum disorders stem from disturbance in the sense of self and subjective experience. It doesn't mean someone can't have both, though.



beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

27 Oct 2013, 10:42 pm

IntellectualCat wrote:
Although I would see that schizophrenic autism might cause symptoms similar to those on the autistic spectrum, the cause of it seems different. Autistic spectrum disorders stem from problems with theory of mind, while according to that article, schizophrenic spectrum disorders stem from disturbance in the sense of self and subjective experience. It doesn't mean someone can't have both, though.


Good point. However, the theory of mind hypothesis is disputed, as there is also the intense world hypothesis. Either way, that does seem different from a disturbance in the sense of self and subjective experience.



beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

29 Oct 2013, 12:58 am

This source says theory of mind issues underlie schizophrenic autism:

http://www.rivistacomprendre.org/allega ... i%20II.pdf

EDIT: I thought this was interesting:

Quote:
Autism is a concept that goes beyond psychiatric diagnoses, even if
it finds in the sphere of schizophrenia its most complete and pervasive
expression and characterization. It can thus be proposed that even if not
all forms of autistic style are in themselves diagnosable as
schizophrenic disturbances, the core forms of the schizophrenia are
unthinkable except as autistic. Autism can be considered not only the
most typical “defense” of schizophrenia, but in theory and conception it
touches the essence of schizophrenia.


So are people with schizophrenia more autistic than autistic people?



Schizpergers
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 234
Location: Washington, USA

29 Oct 2013, 7:52 am

I did not read the entire article it was too much to read but I think I understand what you are asking.
I am diagnosed on both the autistic and schizophrenic spectrum and while a few symptoms overlap they have different reasons.
I have gotten a better idea of the difference from trying to understand which of my symptoms are caused from autism and which symptoms are from schizophrenia.

I think what this article is about is what's called negative symptoms. In both conditions they seem similar but they are different.

In autism negative symptoms are actually alexithymia which is difficulty expressing and understanding emotions.

In schizophrenia the negative symptoms manifest as anhedonia and a loss of emotion.

So a simple explaination is lack of emotion vs lack of emotional understanding.

Since I have been medicated I am able to experience emotion more but still do not understand them. This is because anhedonia can be medicated but alexithymia cannot.