"Asperger syndrome is a severe handicap"

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I just read this:

on this site.


What suffering do you think he refers to? The suffering from social isolation/exclusion?

Sometimes, I think it goes deeper than social isolation/exclusion, and into a realm of nihilistic solipsism. But I try not to think like that too often. Bad for the mental health, dontcha know.

You have the ability to speak but not the ability to communicate. You can speak, but not tell people what you feel like such that they understand, between understanding what its like, between being able to convert it into communication, between figuring out how to communicate properly.

Yet people expect to be able to communicate, because you can speak. So, the fact that even though you're struggling, managing to get only minimal parts of ideas across, most of it stuck inside, not communicating any of that stuff that's stuck...

That part that's stuck, it builds up. It's inside, it hurts. Sobbing, and screaming, and pulling away, feeling hurt by people, and craving people. It hurts. Wanting to be understood, not knowing how. Needing to explain, not knowing how. Needing to not be alone in your battle. And instead, being alone. And at other times, needing to be alone, and not being able to tell people to let you be alone, because they can't understand.

Being so different that your needs are not understandable. That your explanations don't make sense. That those few little ideas you finally get across finally are unable to be understood.

And then you're treated in ways that are bad for you.

And then you deal with that.

80% of those with Asperger's have clinically significant anxiety.
I'm not sure the number for depression, but it's a large number too.

They're not part of the autism, but how we're treated, its not surprising they come up.

But, that's not needed for it to be like this, either. They're symptoms too, in some ways in many cases, symptoms of what happens in a world like this with people like these people.

There's more than that which is relevant, but I suspect that is more of what its referring to.

You mean the issue of being "stuck in one's own mind"/"living in one's head"?

Well, there are all kinds of suffering from living with it; one is the sheer strain of having to be more NT-like in order to be accepted in an NT world, socially or in the workplace, among those who are compelled to do so depending on the circumstances. What comes easily to NTs can be exhausting for spectrumites, and that's hard on a person.

Another form of suffering is from sensory overload issues in a world where NTs are not bothered by what bothers someone with sensory issues.

Another suffering is actually the opposite of social isolation -- that of actually craving more space from people and not getting it, or not enough of it. That is a great strain.

There are many different ways in which being on the spectrum is hard and causes suffering to one degree or another.

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This is an interesting thought, please expand on it (if you would be so kind).

It's a severe handicap, sure.

I'm guessing he's meaning that it's harder to see in comparison to something like a lack of legs (which he refers to), and since it's just as disabling as that but not as obvious to other people, then one will suffer from the prejudice of others who can't see it.

That's exactly how I interpreted it. I tend to agree as well, a WHOLE lot more accommodations are made for people with physical disability. A person wouldn't dream of saying to a guy with no legs "FFS just get out of your wheelchair and walk" but it's very common for people to say pretty much the same thing to us (or even just people with mental health problems).

I'd much rather have Asperger's than losing both my legs. Asperger's does not prevent me from lifting weights, for instance. I get a free pass out of a lot of the bad stuff that goes with Asperger's because I'm getting a degree in computer science rather than something that demands that I multitask and socialize a lot.

With that being said, AS pretty much ruined my teenage years.

Being unable to communicate on deep levels and wanting to, or even more shallow stuff like wanting to compliment a coworker on her outfit but being afraid that you will say it wrong and insult her brings about a huge amount of anxiety. Whether you surpass it and actually say something or just forget it instead of risking insulting her, it still sucks to feel that way. Or when you are having a really crappy day, fighting with your mom, traffic problems, and taking a wrong turn getting to your in-laws' house and when your husband asks why you are shaking, the only thing that can come out is "I really hate LeBron James" because you were listening to the sports report on the way there. Of course, my husband knows that my distaste for LeBron and the Heat in general was not the cause for my impending meltdown, I have no way at the time to explain better. And being that tore up and feeling completely alone in it leads to depression.

Of course, later, he might ask "How's your mom?" and I would be able to say "She's behaving like an irrational b***h. She called me a horrible mother yesterday." Or "I'm glad you found your way to dad's ok" and I could say "Yeah, and I know you can't turn left off that little road now." and smile about it. And God knows he wouldn't turn on a Heat game unless they are playing my stepson's Clippers. But being able to rationally explain what went wrong the day before doesn't alleviate the fact that when I feel hurt and upset, I am completely alone in it. Simply because my brain won't process it well enough to share it with someone who actually wants to understand (and there are certainly not enough like him in the world). That kind of aloneness is what leads to depression. I firmly believe that social isolation is less a cause of depression than the desire to communicate and the inability to do so. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's one of the ways I suffer because of Aspergers.

It seems a pretty straightforward idea:

1. Autism is autism. Depression and anxiety are not part of autism. They are common co-morbids, but they are not autistic symptoms any more than epilepsy is an autistic symptom.

2. People with autism are frequently mistreated. I've said on other threads I'm not willing to look up the rates of abuse in autism anymore, because at this point doing so would be a trigger, but they're absurd. Whether its sexual, physical, emotional... all of them are absurdly high rates. Whether you consider bullying abuse or not, again, its absurdly high rates.

3. We have symptoms that specifically interfere with our communicating when we're hurt, and communicating our needs. This is part of why we're preyed on so much, but it also means that other situations are more likely to build up as problems, because we can't deal with them.

4. If people are self-aware enough, then people are aware of their differences. Some people care about these and some people don't, those who care, this is another frequent spot for anxiety symptoms to arise from, partially because of being aware of the differences, but even more than that, because people Look Down on you for being different. Its not because of being different, its because of how people treat you for being different.

That's what comes to mind immediately.

It does seem a pretty straightforward idea, but given the number of theories about 'man-made depression' I was interested to hear you unpack it a little.

It really depends on who you hang out with and what they expect of you. I've always been quite comfortable with quiet, easy-going people. While jabbery people drive me nuts, especially jabbery people who speak nonsense (to me). When you have to stand such people regularly in order to fit in with normal life, it's awful. Like if your job is to hear balloon squeaking all day. Now I'm not a particularly quiet aspie or very introverted. I think most autistics are even quieter and more sensitive to social talking. I can imagine how awful that would feel when they have to adapt to live with outgoing (and emotional, and irrational) NTs.

Talking itself does not bother me. I can listen to lectures or watch documentaries and understand them very well. I can not watch soap operas or listen to talks about relationships for more than 10 minutes without feeling sick and disgusted. Seriously it feels like watching someone puke.

Well, that's just it -- NTs aren't irrational. What they do makes sense. What we do, doesn't.

I wouldn't put too much stock in that website. It seems very shoddy. As far as I can tell, the author's sole notable achievement is running a club for people with high IQs- that he isn't even a member of.

Anyway, autism isn't social isolation, or sensory overload, or any other symptoms- it is the condition as a whole.

I agree with this-- I'm not going into CS, but I would absolutely rather have AS than lose my legs or be blind. I just see AS as part of who I am. It doesn't keep me from hiking, enjoying the world's beauty, or even having a couple of friends and having a great marriage. I don't see AS as debilitating for me, just something that I have to take into consideration when I'm trying to do something.