Have YOU been tested for Neanderthal genes?

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knifegill
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07 Jan 2013, 1:43 pm

I might someday, but I was curious if any aspies DIDN'T have much Neanderthal DNA, to counter the theory. I'm interested in both sides to the concept. Yes, it sounds silly, but on the other hand the DNA is there. But is it really higher in ASD folks?



Anomiel
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07 Jan 2013, 2:05 pm

I would love to. But how?



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07 Jan 2013, 2:09 pm

I don't think autistics are any more Neaderthal than your average European.
Anyone from Europe, America, Asia and Australasia have quite a bit of Neanderthal in them, those who are exclusively Negroid/from East and Central Africa have pretty much just stayed homo sapien all the way.
Really humans are made up of lots of different subspecies when you think about it, someone from China is miles apart physiologically than someone from Mexico.


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knifegill
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07 Jan 2013, 2:18 pm

You can pay to have the test done. There are probably several labs that can run it for you.

Yes, but do aspies have any higher percentage on average than non-aspies?



Anomiel
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07 Jan 2013, 2:33 pm

knifegill wrote:
You can pay to have the test done. There are probably several labs that can run it for you.

Yes, but do aspies have any higher percentage on average than non-aspies?


Ahh yes. Did some googling and didn't know that 23andMe had started with it! Wow!
Wonder what the highest amount revealed is yet? Any info on that?

I thought so way before they even had the dna-evidence that any interbreeding at all happened so I was ecstatic when those articles were published. I'm firmly in camp neanderthal on this. Can see why not everyone would be though, and it needs more evidence.



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07 Jan 2013, 3:01 pm

Hmmm...I thought most of the neanderthal genes ended up in the social conservative movement...

My first reaction is that NT's are more like primitive species (groupthink, herd/gang mentality, etc.) than aspies are, from a behavioral standpoint. The neanderthals must have heavily depended on nonverbal communication also, which aspies suck at.



naturalplastic
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07 Jan 2013, 3:20 pm

The real granddaddy of all working scientists today was not galileo, nor newton, nor copernicus, but a certain smooth talking Italian sailor with no science diploma who managed to talk certain powers-at-be into giving him a research grant. This first ever research grant in human history was to test the sailor's theory that the edge of asia was only six hundred miles west of the Azores- and thus an easy hop by boat from western europe. Folks laughed at him.

But he got the grant and bought three ships- and tested his theory by sailing west in 1492.
And guess what!

The folks who laughed at him were proved RIGHT! They all thought that the planet had to be much bigger than this crazy Italian said it was, and they were proved right ( asia starts 12 thousand miles west of the Azores).

It was a friggin' dumb theory. But in the act of testing his theory the guy accidently stumbled upon two new huge continents that were previously unknown.

Anyway.
The Neanderthal theory of autism/aspergers is in, in my opinion, probably like columbus's small earth theory. Probably wrong, but interesting, and worth looking into nontheless. Its the kind of thing that may cause us to stumble upon a new continent or two even if its wrong.

It costs money to get your genes tested. So far only rockstars like ozzy osbourne can afford it. He found that he had some significant smidgen of neanderthal DNA ( he has dyslexia but I doubt that he has autism-he seems more adhd in personality than aspie to me).

There is a certain logic to the neanderthal-autism link theory. But I agree with the op that you could just as easily argue the opposite notion.

Perhaps autistics and aspies are less primate and are more Sapien than most homo sapiens! The fact that we miss social cues fail to read body language and take verbal comunication too litereally shows that we are less monkey like- than most people - and are sort of inbred over sapien sapiens. This might mean that we have a pausity of archaic homid genes, and not an over supply of them.We are farther from the apes than NT's- and thats the problem with us!

Just a thought.



compiledkernel
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07 Jan 2013, 3:25 pm

I probably dont have any neanderthal genes.

But my daughter does think that on occasions, I am a barbarian.

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Sidmor
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07 Jan 2013, 3:42 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
My first reaction is that NT's are more like primitive species (groupthink, herd/gang mentality, etc.) than aspies are, from a behavioral standpoint. The neanderthals must have heavily depended on nonverbal communication also, which aspies suck at.


Actually the groupthink and the gang mentality requires the intricate development of certain advanced social, emotional and multitasking functions that the aspies lack.

I'd view autism as that it happens to have some positive, as well as some negative traits as a result of the underdevelopment of certain social and emotional functions.

You know, tribalism is deeply rooted in the NTs, and while this groupthink seems primitive to us, it actually used to be an evolutionary trait that allowed the NTs to cooperate and adapt effectively.

Neurological social traits this complex are probably unique to the NTs, I'd say that all the animals, as well as probably the Neanderthals too, sucked at nonverbal communication when compared to the NTs.

I don't wholly understand the "neanderthals are ret*d" mentality. Sure, they were impractical (like we tend to be), but if autism and Neanderthals have a connection, they could actually have been theoretically smart in the same way we are. They did have larger brains too "Neanderthals had a 1500cc brain volume, while modern humans have 1400cc" even though the brain size alone does not determine intellect.



eric76
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07 Jan 2013, 3:42 pm

knifegill wrote:
I might someday, but I was curious if any aspies DIDN'T have much Neanderthal DNA, to counter the theory. I'm interested in both sides to the concept. Yes, it sounds silly, but on the other hand the DNA is there. But is it really higher in ASD folks?


It's not a theory. At best, it's a conjecture or hypothesis. If not that, it's an hallucination. In any case, it's almost certainly completely bogus.



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07 Jan 2013, 3:51 pm

I've had a lot of tests, but I can say for certain such has never been tested.

I have no idea why it would be either.



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07 Jan 2013, 4:06 pm

Well yes, we might be something completely new instead, but older subspecies (species, races whatever) are not necessarily something to disdain.
The neanderthal as stupid or primitive compared to coexisting homo sapiens has been debunked time and time again from several different angles. That is what the word has come to mean today, but no modern science describes them that way anymore and there are lots of evidence to the contrary. Also, evolution is not a climb to the most un-monkey like creature - what's that about monkeys and barbarians? Neanderthals were pretty sophisticated for the time.
The worlds first cave-painters might have been neanderthals:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/ ... paintings/


Couldn't find the article I was looking for but this one will do (from before they knew about the DNA);

Quote:
Many long-held beliefs suggesting why the Neanderthals went extinct have been debunked in recent years. Research has already shown that Neanderthals were as good at hunting as Homo sapiens and had no clear disadvantage in their ability to communicate. Now, these latest findings add to the growing evidence that Neanderthals were no less intelligent than our ancestors.

Metin Eren, an MA Experimental Archaeology student at the University of Exeter and lead author on the paper comments: "Our research disputes a major pillar holding up the long-held assumption that Homo sapiens were more advanced than Neanderthals. It is time for archaeologists to start searching for other reasons why Neanderthals became extinct while our ancestors survived. Technologically speaking, there is no clear advantage of one tool over the other. When we think of Neanderthals, we need to stop thinking in terms of 'stupid' or 'less advanced' and more in terms of 'different.'"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 203924.htm



Anomiel
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07 Jan 2013, 4:21 pm

Sidmor wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
My first reaction is that NT's are more like primitive species (groupthink, herd/gang mentality, etc.) than aspies are, from a behavioral standpoint. The neanderthals must have heavily depended on nonverbal communication also, which aspies suck at.


Actually the groupthink and the gang mentality requires the intricate development of certain advanced social, emotional and multitasking functions that the aspies lack.

I'd view autism as that it happens to have some positive, as well as some negative traits as a result of the underdevelopment of certain social and emotional functions.

You know, tribalism is deeply rooted in the NTs, and while this groupthink seems primitive to us, it actually used to be an evolutionary trait that allowed the NTs to cooperate and adapt effectively.

Neurological social traits this complex are probably unique to the NTs, I'd say that all the animals, as well as probably the Neanderthals too, sucked at nonverbal communication when compared to the NTs.

I don't wholly understand the "neanderthals are ret*d" mentality. Sure, they were impractical (like we tend to be), but if autism and Neanderthals have a connection, they could actually have been theoretically smart in the same way we are. They did have larger brains too "Neanderthals had a 1500cc brain volume, while modern humans have 1400cc" even though the brain size alone does not determine intellect.


1+



slave
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07 Jan 2013, 4:30 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The real granddaddy of all working scientists today was not galileo, nor newton, nor copernicus, but a certain smooth talking Italian sailor with no science diploma who managed to talk certain powers-at-be into giving him a research grant. This first ever research grant in human history was to test the sailor's theory that the edge of asia was only six hundred miles west of the Azores- and thus an easy hop by boat from western europe. Folks laughed at him.

But he got the grant and bought three ships- and tested his theory by sailing west in 1492.
And guess what!

The folks who laughed at him were proved RIGHT! They all thought that the planet had to be much bigger than this crazy Italian said it was, and they were proved right ( asia starts 12 thousand miles west of the Azores).

It was a friggin' dumb theory. But in the act of testing his theory the guy accidently stumbled upon two new huge continents that were previously unknown.

Anyway.
The Neanderthal theory of autism/aspergers is in, in my opinion, probably like columbus's small earth theory. Probably wrong, but interesting, and worth looking into nontheless. Its the kind of thing that may cause us to stumble upon a new continent or two even if its wrong.

It costs money to get your genes tested. So far only rockstars like ozzy osbourne can afford it. He found that he had some significant smidgen of neanderthal DNA ( he has dyslexia but I doubt that he has autism-he seems more adhd in personality than aspie to me).

There is a certain logic to the neanderthal-autism link theory. But I agree with the op that you could just as easily argue the opposite notion.

Perhaps autistics and aspies are less primate and are more Sapien than most homo sapiens! The fact that we miss social cues fail to read body language and take verbal comunication too litereally shows that we are less monkey like- than most people - and are sort of inbred over sapien sapiens. This might mean that we have a pausity of archaic homid genes, and not an over supply of them.We are farther from the apes than NT's- and thats the problem with us!

Just a thought.


Columbus did not discover the Americas. Read some History.



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07 Jan 2013, 4:36 pm

slave wrote:
Columbus did not discover the Americas. Read some History.
He discovered passage to america's. It's about the same difference and is what most assumes to be the truth at this point and time.

And this is coming from a person proud to be from Vinland. The viking and portuguese were here first, but they failed to share this information with society, therefore it shouldn't be considered the same, if your getting technical ancients siberian's discovered america on countless ocassions.



Baryonyx
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07 Jan 2013, 4:59 pm

There's also the theory that egyptians made it over and brought their pyramid building to south america. I made a presentation in school about that. Some norwegian scientific adventurer even built an egyptian boat and made it over the atlantic ocean. But gene research says that this hypothesis is very unlikely to be true.

Oh, I went too off topic I guess... :P

I always thought that those people with large brow ridges are the ones with more neanderthal genes - or is it possible that these are passed on recessively? :scratch:
But I can't say how this relates to autism - I don't know any aspies or autists with large brow ridges... :shrug:

EDIT: And no, I've not been tested. I have no large brow ridges either! :lol:


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