How to Treat Undiagnosed People?

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I have two very important people in my life, one of whom is definitely undiagnosed Aspie and the other is probably - like me, he's at least BAP. This wouldn't be a problem in most cases, but it's become one in these two situations, which are ironically hugely similar despite the fact that the men involved would claim to have nothing in common.

Problem #1:
They clash with my sister, who's a diagnosed Aspie because in both cases it is their way or nothing - this is heavily anxiety/Aspie trait influenced - and both are in positions of power over her (and me). For example, everything at home has to follow their own system/order, even if that clashes with my sister's systems/order/safe spaces, putting her through rapid changes to conform with their systems, etc. (This has given me further appreciation for what most Aspies go through every day, navigating the world as though it's a mine field, never knowing when you'll mess up some silly social rule or miss a cue and have it blow up on you. Normally, as I am more BAP-y, I'm not too bad at navigating the NT social world, but the world run by someone who doesn't know he's AS and doesn't accommodate at home? Let's just say I set off a lot of bombs in this particular mine field.)

Problem #2:
They don't recognize their more Aspie weaknesses. So even in situations where it's definitely their Aspie traits at hand (ie reacting to a change of plans/something unexpected or a social situation), they think that it's the rest of the world's fault and the rest of the world (esp those they live with or are close to, ie my sister and me, plus our mom) bears the brunt of their frustration/anger.

The difference between my sister and I and these two people is not their Aspie traits so much as their positions of power and their lack of recognition/understanding of their own traits. Telling them they're Aspies would have terrible results, btw, because they have a really stigmatized view of AS and also like to act like it doesn't exist, or at least like my sister doesn't have it. And also, my sister and I are on both of their lists of irritating people...that they care about, but still definitely considered irritating, so even less likely to have that scenario go well.

I have no idea what to do in this situation, but let me tell you it's no fun for anyone involved (them included). Help? Advice/comments/sympathy are all appreciated.

I don't know. I don't see a good way to deal with this situation.

The way I see it, you have only three choices:

1. Get them diagnosed by an appropriately-trained, licensed and experienced mental-health professional, and treat them according to the professional's directives.

2. Treat them according to your own opinions and beliefs, and watch their lives go into a tailspin as a result.

3. MYOB.

1. Not going to happen. They'd react really badly if I mentioned Asperger's.

2. If I acted in what it seems like you're imagining my own opinions and beliefs are, their lives wouldn't tailspin if I confronted them, mine would. And it would go very, very badly for me if I did anything other than conform. I realize you have very limited information on which to judge, but I don't think the situation is the way you've interpreted it.

My own actual opinions and beliefs do mess things up at home. Things would go a lot better (for me, not her) if I didn't believe I had to defend my sister. It would go even better if I thought family was more about authority and respecting hierarchy and less about loving and caring - that legitimately has and continues to get me in trouble, but it's something I still hold out hope in and really don't want to change because I think that's what family really should be about - my family just doesn't follow that. But you seemed to be assuming that I had negative opinions and beliefs about the people involved or about Asperger's or undiagnosed people or something. I don't. If anything, I have opinions/beliefs about the people involved that are set too high/too positively. And instead of recalibrating my beliefs (which I guess I should do, but it's like the family thing, I really don't want to change it - should I?) I just reset them after every blow up.

A lot of the problem is that I can't read the systems of these two people (and they're not explicitly stated), but I'm expected to, and it blows up on me a lot - but that's less an opinion/belief issue and more a not being able to read issue.

3. It is my business. They really are in positions of power over my sister and I, and the results are very, very painful for the two of us.

Option #4, suck it up and deal with it, is what I've been doing and will probably continue to do, but I was hoping someone here would have some insights or some helpful paradigm-shifting statements.

The issue at hand here isn't so much undiagnosed, I guess, as it is that on top of other issues, because I have undiagnosed friends (who, at least, weren't diagnosed when we started hanging out) and we haven't had these issues.

I can only say that you have a good attitude and when you raise your own family, things will be much better.

I don't think diagnosis makes a bit of difference in this case--it's the behavior that counts, not the cause. Your suspicions about the cause may be helpful in your own process of dealing with it, but it's not going to make a difference in their behavior.

I say this because I see similar things in my family. Knowing why just does not help in a clash of incompatible rigidities.

You may have the fantasy that if they knew they would be able to moderate their demanding behavior to better care for your sister (and you)--but you have already said it "is their way or nothing" Knowing why is not likely to change this!

You see that your sister needs certain things because of her neurology. Perhaps they need these irritating rigid hierarchies as much as your sister needs what she needs. What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object? I don't know but I would want to be miles outside the blast radius if someone conducts the experiment.

You cannot make your family into the people you feel they should be. Many are in the same situation. I think the best we can do is to create alternate "families of choice" with close friends. Forgive your family of origin for not being the people you need them to be and move on. They will never be the people you want and as long you hold out hope of that you are going to be unhappy.

Strive for financial independence. The power of the purse will enable you to create an environment more suited to your needs and you can then choose when and how to engage with the family that doesn't sustain you while building new and better relationships with people who are more sympathetic.

I wish every good fortune for you and your sister.

I don't think the trouble is that they're undiagnosed; I think the trouble is that they are biased against Aspies.

You know how sometimes it's the most homophobic men who secretly are attracted to other men themselves? It's like that. They see their own AS traits, subconsciously, but because they're biased against autistics, they come down even harder on diagnosed Aspies than they would if they were middle-of-the-road NTs.

My mom does this. She's probably autistic; she's undiagnosed. She is very biased against disability. She blames people for wearing perfumes or making noise. She blames her kids--me, especially--for stressing her out. She doesn't realize that she's different. She believes that her special interests are universally important and that everyone must study them.

I haven't found a solution for dealing with my mother, except for putting distance between us, both emotionally and physically. It's better to just be polite and respectful and let her be who she is, without letting her judgments of me affect my self-worth.

cathylynn:
Thanks. One can only hope.

Adamantium:
You phrased this really well - a clash of incompatible rigidities. As for your question, "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" I have an answer. The unstoppable force manages to move the object to make it conform with its needs, which frightens the object and causes it to never feel safe around the force. (My sister is, of course, the object in this metaphor.)

As for the financial independence thing, that's a lot of the problem right now. I'm working on it, and if we took a whole bunch of loans my sister and I could both be conmpletely independent, but it just doesn't make sense to do that and then be in that much debt. But I'll keep trying - in six months it's possible I'll be completely independent, in two and a half years my independence is guaranteed.

Callista:
You may be onto something there, at least with one of the two of them. A lot of what you said rang true (blaming people for wearing perfumes and making noise, for example).

Yeah, I agree. I'll work on that, really I will. It's just hard to be labeled the problem, especially after having tried SO VERY hard to conform to their ideals (in one case - in the other, I will admit I don't try anymore), because if someone tells you that you're the problem, you're the one who can't manage to do anything right, you're the one at fault, etc for long enough, it really starts to get in your head.

Not to defend your mom, but a lot of people who were diagnosed late in life never realized that NTs experience sensory stimuli differently. I always thought everyone was "attacked" by sounds. I thought I had a different style of thinking about relationships or holidays or whatever because of the way I was brought up. I had no reason to know there was anything that might cause these things in my case specifically. If your mom isn't diagnosed, she may have no reason to think she's not "normal" or "typical". I think you have it right when you says she doesn't realize she's different -- but the question is, has she ever had any reason to realize that?

Now that I realize it's something with me, but not with me alone, it's easier to cope with NTs. It's more a choose-to-engage-or-not situation, rather than assuming I ought to be able to fit in and feeling pressured to do so.

Constant social rejection, though somehow she talked herself into thinking she was the one rejecting everyone else. I don't understand how she can be overwhelmed by perfume or noise, see other people outright enjoying it, and not wonder why she's different.

Even then, let's say she's so socially oblivious that she doesn't notice that other people are different--she doesn't have much of an excuse, since she actually worked with autistic children for years, and her autistic daughter has been telling her, also for years, that Mom has autistic traits and that she needs to stop assuming that everybody is deliberately hurting her because they're mean, mean people who don't care about her feelings. This isn't some lady who's been fumbling along for years having no clue what autism is beyond possibly "Rain Man". This is a therapist who has seen autism personally and studied it as part of her job. On the other hand, she was also in denial about my autism, so at least she's consistent.

Experiencing social rejection is one thing. But getting paranoid to the point of taking a perfect stranger's affinity for too much perfume personally... that's quite another.

I'm really, really sorry to hear that, Callista. That sounds like a very difficult situation.

Difficult, but fortunately survivable. Happens to a lot of kids with invisible or minor disabilities, growing up; their parents go into denial. It's yet another result of a society-wide tendency toward ablist prejudice.