is self-control societally driven?

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I just watched a program about trying to break habits and someone on it touched on something that I have a very sore spot with, something that affects me personally and which I feel I agree with.

This expert suggested that long-term goals, desires, actions, etc. are probably entirely socially driven. I came to this conclusion for myself decades ago, but somewhere along the way I forgot about it, or ignored it. We adopt long-term ideals and things because of others. We want to impress people, we want to connect and we want them to value us. And when you don't have society to live in, when you aren't a functioning member of a group of some sorts, truly, what is the point of long-term goals? What is the point of being successful if there's no one else to see your success? What is the point of life beyond immediate self-satisfaction if you're sequestered from society?

I suppose this is depressed me talking. I've given up on so many things, I shun so much about society, I feel that I can't function in it because I have no willpower and, so importantly, I have little desire to impress people, make people happy, be better than others, compete...but all the same I avoid responsibilities because I'm not reliable enough, almost no matter what it is, because I can't disappoint people.

I'm sure though that my experience with becoming anti-social and then losing (or losing more of) my ability to be driven towards goals can't be shared by everyone. Especially people on the autistic spectrum. So many people on here say they're so much happier being alone, for the most part. But do any of you ever feel that you're giving up something of yourself when you're antisocial? Like, obviously you're losing out on basic socializing and all those obvious things that one might experience from being social, (friendship, comraderie, etc) but do you ever feel that your own motives and actions change drastically when you're antisocial, that you become unhinged?

Maybe. I am not society or socially driven.

Society in North American Culture, and most of Western Society in general is to be loud, outgoing and make lots of connections with other people. Moral character has taken a backseat to your personality. People feel that your success in life is dependent on your personality since that is what sells. Noone cares about morals and character building anymore and I don't think anyone has cared about that for a long time either.

Depression talking. Not society driven. Have long term goals to give me something to do and personal purpose. Even if lived outside society need a todo path to accomplish. Say gather food for winter before winter happen. Plan budget so can buy what I want.

Sorry for bad grammar. In shutdown, language hard.

Not for me they are not.

I do the things I do because I have passion for them and want to experience and learn about them ((ie learning to play piano) or because I need to do them in order to the pursue the things I want to (ie budget so I can afford lessons).

In regards to being asocial and/or being alone I am mixed regarding that. In an idealistic world it would be nice to have some company with which I share a connection and can enjoy some camaraderie but in reality this is not the case.

Firstly I have a vastly different way of seeing things that no one seems to be able to fully understand. Example:

When I saw the careers adviser a few weeks back I asked for information on local courses that I could get funding for in the area. What I ended up with was an hours worth of reassurance I didn't need at the time (I am aware of my skill level thank you) and offers of support for my mental health issues (whatever they are these days). No list of courses and the information I did get was not of any use to me so I came away from the appointment annoyed as now I have to acquire the information by other means. Fine, I will do that, but I had hoped the careers adviser would have been more use.

Most people would have been happy for the information about support for their mental illness and ego patting in the form of the reassurance. I was just annoyed that I couldn't get the information I asked for.

Secondly I don't like the drama that having social contacts creates

I have been trying recently to socialise in the real world and I am thus far not impressed. It seems to be lots of sitting around gossiping about people and generally making trouble. This does not interest me. People don't want to learn about the world, travel or explore. They just want reality tv shows with celebrities I don't know whilst gossiping about everyone in the nieghbour so they have some drama to entertain themselves with.

I am still looking for the learners in life (those who want adventure because they are passionate souls who want to experience things) but I am not having a luck thus far. It is why I want to travel...The further afield I go, the more people I meet, the more chance I have of finding an LL (life learner). PN it is not just about academia or intellectualism, its about adventure, experience, passion so academics, artists, travelers, those into extreme sports or anything unusual...something most people don't do. I know they are out there someone and there may even be one who understands my belief system.

My belief system is different:

I don't fear failure
I am not afraid to try new things
Mistakes are just a learning curve
I prefer to take decisive action rather than beat myself up
I find things amusing that others don't (ie when I got people lost because I was holding a map upside down, I found it hilarious,, especially in regards to my not so great map reading ability . Others were not so amused...stuffy buggers they were).


and so on.

I live in a world that I can't understand and which can't understand me. So in some ways I am actually better off alone. i have never had a relationship bring me any happiness yet, but they have brought me much misery. People wanting to change me, people who don't want to experience or understand anything, people with no sense of humour apparently....people who take everything horribly seriously and people who are constantly critical beyond that which is reasonable for a balanced critique of my performance and so on.

Misery,,no camaraderie, just misery.

And on yet another attempt to find friendships I see it is still misery out there.

I am reconsidering.

AS "The only reason I need people around is to use them to fulfill my special interests."
NT "I love you guys, without you I couldn't have accomplished anything, I can't imagine you out of my life!"

Those two sentences mean the same thing. Don't argue, they just do. Facts are facts. The differences between AS and NT make the differences in the two sentences irrelevant. Accept it and gain a powerful AS/NT ally. Reject it and forever stare into the rift.

In the ye olde days, people who disagreed were hung swinging by their necks up in trees. Certainly those who survived the dark ages of that kind of brutality went on to have children who were dearly influenced by social connections. It's a survival instinct, just like any emotion is at its core. Sorry, but this isn't a theory.
The changes in society that allow people of all types to live are allowing all types of people to live! Those of us who identify with our subject instead of with people will not develop loneliness or any real interest in people aside from what is stated in the first sentence. Some of us, though, do have motivating adult drives to seek out companionship.

...

"This expert suggested that long-term goals, desires, actions, etc. are probably entirely socially driven."

I see that as a sign of a lack of empathy in nts. Since so many of them are so socially driven they can't imagine that there are people that actually aren't.

It depends what you mean by "socially driven". It looks reasonable to assume that influence of social entities always has some impact on your behaviour (including long term goals) since it is difficult to survive (and even more to live a fulfilling life) as a human without at least coming to some kind of agreement with the local social groups. Even if everything you want in life is live in your house, grow your own food and never see another human being, you need to make sure other people will let you do that. Your "long term goals" will then have to include some elements about making sure the local social groups leave you alone, which is in itself reacting to social pressure. You can't ignore social entities, at least because they will never completely ignore you. That being said, like many people here I sometimes get interested in things nobody else seems to care about, and it is possible to build long term goals around them which are probably in good part independent of local social influence.

On the other hand, the long term-impact of a society on individual behaviours has another name - culture. And almost everything we do, think or plan is influenced by our culture. You can maybe escape - up to a point - the local social games and power plays, but you can probably never shake off the cultural influences that shaped you. It is even manifest in many special interests : whether you are interested in the local train system, japanese culture, or collecting stamps you are studying cultural artefacts created by social groups. I'm not saying it is good or bad, and I don't know if you would consider that "socially driven". I just want to point out that there is more to "society" than just social pressure and political power games.

Such interesting answers everyone.

Qawer: It's truly impressive how you manage to fit EVERYTHING you talk about into your dichotomous theory regarding nts and aspies, elaborating on your theory as you do so. It used to bother me, but now you've pointed out something that should be obvious to me but for some reason isn't: I am a social person, I have always been happiest being social. But I do not socialize much, even to people I get along with and like (which seem to be few, not that I dislike those other people, I don't dislike people much either). And (this I do know well) habits and activities that help me the most when I'm depressed hurt me the most when I'm not.

droppy: I'm just seeing myself in stark comparison to you. Yep, I'm just depressed. I don't have much self-motivation. But at least when there's people around and if I get caught up in a life that I'm forced into if I can accomplish in that life, I can pretty much ignore that I don't know what *I* want, or can ignore that I don't have what I want. There's an innate drive for me when I'm being social, it's in-your-face.

Hanyo (and to bumble): Yes, it is a lack of NTs being able to identify with ASD. It's hard for many people to understand such intense asocialness since I believe that most people, when excluded socially to an extreme, will become depressed because the very fabric of their purpose of existence gets unwound. That's probably why you keep getting people telling you what you feel bumble, because it's incredibly difficult for most people to value themselves separately from the rest of the world, it's so strongly ingrained and is so very basic to how most people exist, such that they cannot imagine that you aren't the same way.

This touches on the classic North vs. South realities of culture.

The "Protestant work ethic" came from the north where failure to plan for the future (e.g., winter) meant suffering. So, not being willing to forgo pleasures today so you can better enjoy tomorrow was a virtue.

In the south, where temperate climates enabled year-round farming, the need to storehouse wasn't that obvious, and a more relaxed attitude towards preparing for the future is prevalent.

Both views have value. Being someplace you can harvest year-round doesn't mean you shouldn't prepare for the future, and it is possible to be so focused on tomorrow that you never stop to enjoy today.

I think you need "long term goals" because if you don't plan for the future (even basic goals of how you will take care of yourself), you will be subject to whatever happens...prepared or not. I do think society puts too much focus on long-term goals, but that may be my personal opinion because I've been unable to get anything I really had planned on, and life seems to keep changing so that my plan last year must also change.