CBT: has it helped you?

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Your experiences of it please if you don't mind sharing.

What did it entail? Did it work for you? What was it useful for? And so on.

The forms they gave me to fill out (and to take back for my next appointment whenever that is...they will contact me I think) ask me to write down thoughts, feelings and behaviours etc in regards to social situations (past that of a surface interaction) and when I get upset and hit my head.

Well I am still trying to find social situations that go past surface interactions. Given that I don't have any friends, or family, or a partner, or get invited anywhere...I am having to find places to socialise as a result. I do have one example from my local pub but it really did not go well (no one wanted to speak to me because I am 'too weird' or so I was told by people in there). Also what do they mean more than surface interaction? Are we talking conversations about the weather or is that still surface? Or are we talking deeper...? What do they consider to be a surface interaction in their world?

Secondly I don't see how writing down my thoughts when I hit my head will make any difference. I don't think they understand that it is something that happens anytime I feel too overwhelmed (or overloaded) and my overloads can range from ranting to myself loudly through to screaming and hitting myself on my head with fists or pulling my hair. I used to break things but i don't do that much now. But anything that overwhelms me can set them off...it is not thought specific really. So anything from a overly crowded supermarket (usually results in my slamming my basket down, exclaiming 'Oh for gods sake' and walking out or similar) to a bad social event that emotionally upset me to the point that I am no able to handle the level of emotional upset I am experiencing (I don't always get that upset, it can vary).

So so far its a bit hard to fill the forms out really, even if I hadn't ripped them up in an upset moment a while ago

I don't know if I've ever had straight up CBT...I don't know what kind of therapy counts as CBT.

I just wanted to make an unsolicited suggestion about the forms (which I hope you don't mind, but you can always just ignore me):

If you don't know what counts as "more than superficial" write that down as the first thing on the forms. If you don't know if you have deeper interactions (whatever that means) then write that down, too, and then just tell them about the kind of interactions you do have. Tell them what you've written here about when you hit your head how you're totally overwhelmed. Treat it like a conversation where you can say things like, "What do you mean?"

From what I gathered from David Burns' book, cognitive behavior therapy is about self-talk and self-coaching. For example, if one person is not interested in you and you say to yourself 'no one is interested in me,' CBT would probably classify this as an example of 'catastrophizing' and recommend responding 'no, some people aren't interested in me, but other people probably are. A lot depends on the particular circumstances in which we meet.'

CBT is fine as one approach and one set of skill among others. If a counselor tries to make it the end-all and be-all and essentially make it a religion, that might be a problem.

It works when I apply it. I stay miserable when I don't.

The cognitive part is listening to your thoughts and challenging the illogical thoughts that produce negative emotions.

The behavioral part is about operant conditioning (the tendency to want to repeat things that produce pleasure and avoid things that produce pain).

Mostly for me it is thought-stopping or relaxations exercises.

Cognitive Behavioral therapy does not get into your childhood or subconscious. It looks at factors in your everyday life that produce negative emotions and thought patterns (which in turn produce maladaptive behavior). It looks at ways to counter those negative emotions and thought patterns so that you feel better a greater percentage of the time and function better.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is the only type of therapy I believe in because, in my experience, everything is based on rewards and punishments and learned patterns of thought. If something can be learned, it can be unlearned, or something better can be learned in its place.

I've been having a ton of problems at work lately with leaving documents in the wrong places or forgetting to follow up on things - can CBT help with that?

Some thoughts on your present difficulties:

If you don't have any intimate relationships, you can only have surface interactions. Tell the therapist you could not do the assignment because you don't have anyone to converse with on a deeper level.



They told you write down your thoughts and feelings when you hit your head because they believe the action (hitting your head) is triggered by specific thoughts and emotions. They also assume that you are proficient at knowing how you are feeling and what you are thinking. This is a common assumption that therapists make when trying to use CBT, but I think it is an unrealistic assumption. My experience (as a mental health professional trying to get people to use forms like these) is that many people don't know how to label their feelings or connect their actions with a thought or an emotion. It is a skill that comes slowly over time with practice. Some people cannot do it at all. Their minds just don't work that way.

So if you find it frustrating to fill out those forms, that is normal. Talk to your therapist about your difficulty with filling out the forms. Perhaps the therapist will try a different approach...or maybe the therapist will tell you practice more.

I don't know. I have the same problem, have had it all my life (losing things and forgetting things). It happens when I get nervous or upset. What works for me is meditation and making lists.

By meditation, I mean taking the following specific actions:

I count my breaths from one to ten. (breathe in deeply = 1, breathe out fully = 2, breathe in deeply = 3, and so on...). If I get distracted and forgot to count, I go back to one. I keep counting my breaths from one to ten until I am calm and can focus on what I am doing.

I think making lists works because I have a hard time multi-tasking. I get distracted very easily. If I go down the list, one thing at a time, I can stay organized.

Hi, I have had times in my life without friends or a partner, and without good relationships with my family. It is hard to bootstrap, in part because people so readily judge you by whether you have friends or not. People shouldn't do this, but often they do.

When I was living in Las Vegas trying to supplement my income playing poker (long story, yes I learned some social skills, but the statistically likely upswings and downswings, just please be careful), well, after poker I would sometimes go over to the sports betting area where they had big screen TVs and comfortable chairs. About 1 time out of 2 or maybe 1 time out of 3, I might get a good conversation going. I'd tell myself it was 50-50 but actually it was a little bit less than that. I might ask, How's the Colts run defense? Well, that's making it too complicated, I'm a little bit auditioning that I'm a worthy conversationalist and a smart person, and all that is unnecessary. And it puts the person on the spot and risks embarrassing them, because they may not have seen the same TV sports news segments I did. Instead I just learned to ask as I casually slid into my chair, "Hi, how are you doing? How's the game going?" And sometimes the person is talkative and sometimes they're not, and either way is perfectly okay. And I think it also helped to casually say it right away.

And maybe more formal groups. For example, let's say animal rescue is something you're interested in. There might be an animal rescue group in your area that could use an additional volunteer. But even so, they probably only meet once a month. But that's okay. If you can get involved with three or four groups and get that going, that's more of an active monthly schedule.

There are just too many thoughts and they are different each time. There are not enough forms and not enough room to state all my thoughts anyway.

For example in regards to the incident at the local pub. I become upset. The main thing that bothered me is that once again this person seemed to think I must hate myself. People online and in the real world seem to be obsessed with this notion.

I don't hate myself and I find such accusations upsetting. I don't judge in quite the same way as most people, probably due to the developmental differences that I had as a child (I had advanced development/was developed to a level beyond my years in a number of areas and moral development was one of them...ergo I carry a very different belief system to most people. I don't agree with societies main belief system as it is too ego driven for my tastes). Many of the ways in which people judge themselves are due to societies belief that things are bad or undesirable in that culture. But it IS just a cultural thing. For example in our society being overweight is seen as bad but in some cultures (can't name one off the top my head as its been a while since I studied sociology) fat people my actually be desirable and then all shades of grey inbetween. It depends on what your personal belief system is as influenced by things like your educational background, IQ, socio-economic background, culture you were raised in, environment you were raised in and so on.

Ergo there are no black and white answers.

I am interested in understanding the true nature of objective reality and spend a lot of time musing this, cultural and personal beliefs only tell me about reality via the eyes of that culture or that individual. It does not tell me what reality itself is.

However, what upsets me about the accusations of self hatred is as follows:

1 It is not true because i don't harbour the same belief system as society, I don't agree with it and I think it is somewhat barbaric on some levels. To judge someone badly because they don't have anything to say for example? Its a horrible way of thinking so if someone does that to me I become upset with them for being overly judgmental, not with myself.

2 Staying with the example of not being able to think of things to say, I am fine with it. If I can't think of anything, I can't think of anything, but people will insist on putting pressure on me by complaining or making a big deal out of the fact that I am not speaking enough. They keep pointing it out to me. In the instance of the pub event I was told that part of the reason I was odd was because I sat by myself. Um I wanted to sit by myself so I could reflect on and entertain my own thoughts. I also often sit by myself and read. I become upset with the idea that I am not allowed to do this. Why am I not allowed to this and why does this make me too weird to talk to or so weird that people feel the need to avoid me and why should I hate myself because I like sitting alone? I don't understand and its upsetting as I see no wrong with it.

Ok yes they can interpret it as my being unfriendly but that is only one possible interpretation (there are many reasons as to why someone might not talk or might want to sit alone for a while), they could find out the reason instead of passing judgment without checking their facts. I am not an unfriendly person, I may not speak much and I may slink off by myself but if people do chat with me I will respond in one way or another even if it's just the nod and smile (which I trained myself to do because people complained that I didn't respond to them when they spoke to me as a child and that I looked grumpy due to not smiling...I wear my default face when I am lost in thought, it looks like a frown but is not, I can often be content but it won't show apparently).

So then I become frustrated over that.

At that point my frustration is building....

Then I start thinking about the therapy itself and even more frustration piles on. I look at the examples of CBT and the forms and think how in the hell can I explain all of this in that little box? I don't have one particular thought...I have a whole chain of them where one thought leads to another and one issue leads to another as well. Firstly I'd need to explain my belief system and that is complicated, then I'd have to explain my chain of thoughts and then my reactions to them, which is usually to do more analysis.

Then I am reminded that I am completely alone by both the therapy and the chain of thoughts. I can't fill out the forms because I don't have anyone to socialise with, despite my attempts to socialise over the last 6 months. Nothing has changed really. I have been out every day, have tried to chat with people and have not made one contact, which is frustrating and leads me to believe there must be something I am not doing. I don't know what that is though, if I did I would do it. I do not feel badly about myself for not knowing what I should be doing, as I don't expect perfection from myself. I am academically bright, i do not feel that I have to be good at everything. Besides I am more interested in a practical solution and that would be figuring out what it is I need to do or what I am doing wrong and correcting that. This is usually, in my experience, the better solution as beating yourself up will solve nothing. The latter is not a part of the problem solving process for me.

If I mention this not knowing what I am doing socially to a therapist they just say it is lack of confidence and that if I relax socialising will come to me naturally (I am diagnosed with social anxiety). Um....this does not happen. I am going around in circles getting nowhere because no one will listen to me. As a child, when they found my asynchornous development...I was advanced in some areas but behind in others such as being emotionally immature as well as being too idealistic and over sensitive...I told them I did not know how to socialise, that there was something wrong with my ability to socially interact like my peers but they ignored me. I have told every therapist since that I don't know how to make friends despite trying and trying and trying and trying and trying.

I don't avoid social situations. I can be a little nervous sometimes but I certainly wont not do something I want to do just for the sake of nervourness alone.

Sometimes I don't want to socialise as I don't want the company of humans all the time..i need my alone time but this is put down to depression. But I will get depressed if i am forced to socialise when I am too tired or don't wish to make chitty chat as its like mental torture. I just want to be on my own for a while to recharge my energy levels but they think that socialising always makes a person feel better. Not me, it can make me feel worse because of all the energy it takes out of me....even if it goes well. My brain gets stressed out and upset and overloaded by the social interaction and the being pressured and forced to interact when I don't wish to and this is another reason I will hit my head. They don't understand. I can't get people to understand.

They are obsessed with making social chit chat...

Then I worry about my hobby time. i want to learn to play piano. It is the first thing I have been excited over since I had to pull out of my OU course due to bad headaches I was getting at the time (Got good grades but couldn't keep up with pace due to feeling physically ill back then). I am so excited and have started reading books on technique and music theory, have bought a digital piano keyboard and stand and am mid way through setting it up as I type, and I have started practicing (with the keyboard on a table for now until I have put the wooden stand up...see picture below of stand and keyboard I have...pic is from amazon as I have not put mine up yet) and if I make friends people will complain about my being obsessed with the piano or my bus riding or sharks (which are my other interests right now) and they will try to force me to socialise when I want to absorb myself into my fascinations. I don't mind socialising when I am in social mode but people will try to force me to socialise when i am not and when i try to explain i want to spend time with my love (my fascinations) or my thoughts reflecting they think it is just my social anxiety or depression talking....

Then I get upset and will hit my head over that...pressure to socialise, pressure to chit chat, pressure pressure by people obsessed with social interaction...they are OBSESSED more than I am with the piano, sharks and buses!! !! !!

Then I think it goes back to the beginning and then some how I go from that back to the true nature of reality as I start contemplating human belief systems and the belief that all humans always have to be social or there is something wrong with them. When and how and why did society decide this? And why can there not be variation within the species? And why is variation wrong or why is it often seen as a disorder...just because it deviates from the norm or the majority? Who says that just because it is a norm or because something is a majority that it is the only way something should be?

In nature, the true reality, beyond that created by human culture, I don't think variation is necessarily a bad thing. It would depend on a number of other factors including things like environment. It is too black and white to say that a variation is bad or good....it is neither. It is what it is. Whether or not it is beneficial or detrimental to you or even neutral depends on number of other variables many of which will be relative and not absolute.

So then I go on to ponder why people refer to things as weaknesses and strengths in an absolute sense...as in they are always a weakness that must be obliterated or always a strength that must be encouraged. This is just not realistic and therapists endorse such thinking but talking about 'building on strengths'. Um I don't have any strengths or weaknesses. What I have are characters, traits and skills which may or may not be useful to me at any given moment in time depending on the variables involved.

So then I start developing a problem with the notion of CBT from that angle...

I don't like the way it catagorises things and 'thinks'.....

And so continues my frustration in a loop and I expect there is more as I have very complex thoughts....so how do I write all that down on the form?

My new baby. Couldn't afford a baby grand so went for a Casio digital piano/keyboard and stand instead lol



Picture from amazon, I don't have a stool yet. It's on my shopping list.

I was given CBT exercises called A,B,C,D problem solving.

A= Antecedent or stressor
B= Your underlying beliefs about the antecedent
C= The consequences of that belief
D= Dispute that belief and then consider and adopt a more positive and appropriate alternative belief.
Then repeat step B & C with the new belief inserted.


An example for me,
A= A failed and disastrous social encounter.
B= My negative belief would be that I am weird and no one wants to know me and I am hopeless at socialising.
C= The consequence is then having a panic attack, feeling depressed defeated and hopeless and feeling more stressed.
D= I could dispute my negative belief by saying that in the past there have been times when I have had good social encounters,
and there probably will be again. This negative belief can’t be altogether true then if I have had positive social encounters at times in the past,
this belief must be wrong, and is doing me no good.



New belief= This particular social encounter didn’t work out, but that doesn’t mean that will be the case in the future, I will have more positive encounters and will hopefully build on them.
New consequence = Perhaps feeling a bit disappointed about the failed encounter but not completely discouraged.


This has worked for me but only when I have stuck with it. Sticking with it I am still working on.

I had CBT last year over self harm issues.
Its described very well by the posters above me.
it was a very positive experience and as of today it is exactly 150 days since Ive cut myself.

I'm glad, but somewhat surprised, to see CBT has worked so well for many in this thread. It was kind of a non-starter for me.

Catching my own thoughts in the moment just doesn't seem possible. It may be related to my thinking style and/or alexithymia, but I just couldn't perceive what precisely I was thinking during troublesome moments, or what beliefs were the problem.

So from all that stuff you wrote, I would say a number of events related to socializing reminded you of your problem with socializing, which made you frustrated. You hit your head because you got frustrated. You got frustrated because you want to be accepted and have companionship and don't feel like anything you have tried so far is working. You hit your head because of feeling frustrated.

Event ---> thoughts ---> more thoughts ---> frustration ---> hitting your head

You just did what the forms want you to do. You connected some events to you hitting your head. The rest of it is looking for the underlying beliefs and questioning those beliefs. Are there any underlying beliefs you have that caused you to be frustrated?

For example, one belief might be "nothing is working" which could easily be turned into "this is hopeless" or "I will always have this problem" which will make anyone feel bad. I am not presuming to know what you think, just providing an example of what CBT is all about.

After you find the underlying beliefs you have to ask yourself, "Are these beliefs necessarily true? Is it possible that these beliefs are false beliefs? What is the evidence for these beliefs being true?"

For example, let's say you do hold the belief that "I will always have this problem". You have no proof of that. You cannot predict the future. It is just as likely that you will find a solution to your social problems. Just because you haven't found a solution yet does not mean you won't find one in the future.

Then you have to ask yourself, "What is a more accurate way of looking at things?" (In other words, what is a more positive belief you replace the negative beliefs with?)

If you replaced the beliefs of "this is hopeless" and "I will always have this problem" with "There is no proof that I will always have this problem" "Things could change tomorrow" you would not feel frustrated and you would not hit your head.

This is the ABCD process that Asperation described. Those forms are just practice so that you can learn to do the ABCD process in your head, without having to use the forms. If you do it your own way, without the forms, just using the ABCD process, you will get the same benefits as using the forms.

I have to do this constantly. I take psych meds for anxiety and depression, but mostly it is the way that I think that gets me upset. I try not to let my thoughts build up into a big long negative chain of thoughts. If I notice that I am upset, I try to stop and follow the thought chain back to the event that got me upset and the underlying negative belief that needs to be challenged.

I found it best to do this exercise on paper. I made note of certain situation that troubled me and then sat down and went through and analyzed it.
by putting it on paper it can be easier to see and interpret, rather than trying to catch a moments thoughts at the time.

Firstly so far, nothing has worked.
Secondly I have not a platonic real life friend in 20 years and have never had a long lasting friendship in the nearly 40 years I have been here. I have, thus far, been unable to make and keep friendships. Similarly I have never been married and although I had longer term relationships in my youth (lasting a few years or more) I have not had one that lasted more than a few months in the last 13 years. No one has loved me in all of that time. No one has stuck around long enough to get to know me and I only get asked out on dates, on average, around every 2 to 3 years and once was via family and the rest of the time with people I met online. The online relationships have never worked out.

I have no family to introduce me to anyone. I have never been asked out even when I go out and about so don't know how this happens to other people. Ergo I cannot make it happen for myself as I don't know how to go about it.

You can't predict the future as you said ergo you cannot be sure it will happen either. So I am still stuck, in the present, in the same circumstances, alone, with no companion and each day passes with no change despite my best attempts to change it.

I am tired of putting so much effort and not getting any rewards. Not even someone to have a night out at the theater and congenial conversation with.

I have also tried not trying, that doesn't work either. If I don't try to socialise, then as I am not all that social naturally, I tend to be oblivious to the people around me and so don't really notice them. If I want to notice people I have to make an effort to..ergo I have to try!

If i were a naturally social person who was more interested in people than pondering my own thoughts and learning about things, then things might be different and I may well meet someone by accident when I am out and about one day being a naturally social chit chit (which I am not, I have to put effort in or I forget to pay attention to people). As it stands they are not different, I am what I am and I will always have to put massive amounts of energy into the social process.

Academics on the other hand, takes much less energy and comes to me more naturally, so if we were talking about my getting a degree, I'd be much more positive. I know I can get one of those if I can acquire the funding, academics is what I was good at and even if I didn't get the piece of paper it wouldn't matter to me. Studying fun so the happy memories alone make it all worth it. God I miss my college days!

In a sense CBT is patronising to me...I am supposed to live on hope that something MIGHT happen? And ignore the possibility that it might NOT. CBT almost assumes a fairly tale ending will happen for everyone...It usually does not.

I once believed I would never be bullied again when I left school...how wrong I was..I was bullied and still get bullied to this day. Nearly 40 years of bullying on and off. Abusive partners and no friends.

I have been in Norwich for 4 years and have not made one local friend despite going out every single day for six months and making effort to interact with people where I can. Thus far nothing has gone past talking about the weather and when I did try at my local pub, well I stated what happened there.

Am I really supposed to believe I have good social skills? Sure I may be able to improve them but I am being treated for social anxiety and if I say anything they say its lack of confidence. So I ask again, where is the evidence? 6 months of social interaction on a daily basis (even if briefly some days because I was too socially exhausted to manage more) and still no contacts, let alone a friend.

No family
No partner
No friends

As they don't believe I have a problem with social skills and that it is all just anxiety then how can they help me improve said skills. There is no problem with my skills according to them.

I don't avoid social interaction, even if I am nervous and I still can't make friends? Something else is going on....they are missing something and treating me for the wrong thing. I'd understand it if my social anxiety made me a recluse but it does not, I just over ride any anxiety I am feeling when and where I can. Sometimes I may react more slowly than I need to but that is because I can't decide what I should be doing and by the time I have made my decision it is too late...i have missed my moment. I could risk it but my mistakes are not amounting to a bit of minor embarrassment, I find many of my known blunders amusing like the time I sent people 30 miles up the motorway because I held a map the wrong way around or the time I walked into a lamp post in front of a bus queue full of people. I laughed, I am not easily embarrassed by such mistakes! I have a warped sense of humour.

My social mistakes, the ones I don't know I am making (I am confused by peoples reactions to me...this is the problem, I don't understand what I am doing so wrong to get this kind of treatment from others) are causing people to actually avoid me because I am 'too weird'. I even asked in what way I am weird when people say this to me, but they won't give me details.

They just say things like 'this is not the way to make friends". What is not the way to make friends?

No one will explain anything to me or even let me explain, they just think I am being deliberately difficult because of my mental illness diagnosis or am just trying to cause trouble etc. So I am a bit stuck really as I don't even know what the f**k is going on exactly.

I am so confused I feel like I am in some kind of shock over other peoples behaviour. It really does not make sense to me as to why people would avoid me or not want to talk to me. I know I am quirky but I have never hurt anyone or broken the law in a serious way (there was a drunk and disoderly charge when I was young but I got a conditional discharge and have no permanent record). I don't do drugs, I don't drink more than once (or twice during holidays like xmas) a week. I don't self harm other than hitting my head when upset. I don't yell at people as this would be rude. I try to keep my outbursts as private as I can.

I know I have alternative views but they are just ideas, theories, opinions...people don't have to agree with them or treat me like I am insane because my belief system is slightly different to theirs. It's just another way of looking at the world...there are many possible ways of doing so.

I don't know why my social life is the way it is...I don't really understand it.

Every day, day by day my life ticks away and nothing changes socially regardless of what I do. I feel like bill murray in the film ground hog day.

Yes it could change..but it also may not. I can't ignore the latter and would rather prepare for the possibility that I may well always be alone especially as finding a relationship is only the first part of the equation. Finding a relationship with someone who wants to travel around with me, share interests with me, enjoy intimacy with me but not live with me? Even if got any interest at nearly 40 when I am not the most attractive female on the planet which is not helped by my dislike of wearing make up and high heels etc (sensitive skin and don't like the feel of the stuff) most want traditional style relationships anyway. I would have traveled when I was younger but I lost 15 years of my life to crippling headaches which have now gone away after coming off all medications and chemicals (even those in food such as sweeteners).

I don't feel any more hopeful thinking that it could happen as I am also still aware that it may not happen so the two cancel each other out and I am left right where I am now...alone, unloved, unwanted, untouched and frustrated. No one to talk to except a few people on facebook and forum boards. Not great for me as I really don't like spending a lot of time on the internet these days. I hate computers and I hate being tied down to machines. I am upset with modern technology and am slowly removing it from my life as much as I can. Why? There is a wonderful world out there to explore and no one ever wants to go out. When people have invited me out in the distant past all they wanted was for me to go round their house to watch TV.

I want to go to the coast, go bowling, go kayaking, go climbing, go horse riding, go skating, go to the theater, watch a musical live on stage, go out for a meal do anything but sit down all night staring at flickering boxes selling people ideologies that stink to high hell by convincing they need to be x, y and z to be human being worth knowing. Materialism, women needing to be so thin they are nothing more than walking skeletons and so on. Not to mention all the stress it causes in accumulating huge debts to by huge TV's you don't really need and then the hours of worry worrying about how you will pay it all off...all to be worthy or worth knowing.

So that one for a lark! I am simplifying my life. I do have a tv but a small one. I no longer have sky or a TV license though so I just watch a few of my favourite DVD,s. I do have a computer as one is necessary in this day and age but it's nothing fancy. I don't have a mobile or an ipad or tablet or kindle etc..I don't want to be jacked into the internet 24 hours a day. I do have a digital piano but nothing overly expensive compared to the costs of some digital pianos out there.

Other than that my technology has pretty gone...including much of my dvd collection. I don't like what this society has to offer me. I'd rather save my cash for traveling or study, art supplies for equipment for exploring my new interest in music.

I hate the flickering boxes and what they have done to the world.

On the bright side my fuel bills are so low I am incredibly eco friendly.