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Iammyowngod
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15 Feb 2014, 3:35 pm

I exist outside of "society", all of those who are wired for obedience are as fish in water, they simply exist in it, accept it....never deeply questioning it. I on the other hand look at them and see the chains which bind them, those same chains they see as safety cables protecting them from the unknown. I am deep, I know myself and continue on the path of self-knowledge. It can be frustrating feeling as though I am a cat among dogs. I watch them behave as dogs, doing things which disgust me, simply doing them because they have been told/taught to do them. I peek behind the curtain and cry out "your god/govt is an old man in filthy rags, come and see", they recoil because they believe I am speaking of their father. They have bonded to the god/govt. I can choose one of two paths....I can rage at them for their shallow stupidity and conformity. Or, I can have empathy, it is my pride and my humility which allow me this choice, this ability. No, they are not like me...but I can have empathy for them. I can show them I care by speaking to them the way one speaks to a terrified dog....with tenderness. Should they bite I can then, and only then smack them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and defend myself from their snapping jaws. But I must remember that I am often like lightening and thunder to puppies who've barely opened their eyes.

How can we as individuals have more empathy for ourselves and others?

Thank you for indulging me.



DarkRain
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15 Feb 2014, 3:44 pm

Iammyowngod wrote:
I exist outside of "society", all of those who are wired for obedience are as fish in water, they simply exist in it, accept it....never deeply questioning it. I on the other hand look at them and see the chains which bind them, those same chains they see as safety cables protecting them from the unknown. I am deep, I know myself and continue on the path of self-knowledge. It can be frustrating feeling as though I am a cat among dogs. I watch them behave as dogs, doing things which disgust me, simply doing them because they have been told/taught to do them. I peek behind the curtain and cry out "your god/govt is an old man in filthy rags, come and see", they recoil because they believe I am speaking of their father. They have bonded to the god/govt. I can choose one of two paths....I can rage at them for their shallow stupidity and conformity. Or, I can have empathy, it is my pride and my humility which allow me this choice, this ability. No, they are not like me...but I can have empathy for them. I can show them I care by speaking to them the way one speaks to a terrified dog....with tenderness. Should they bite I can then, and only then smack them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and defend myself from their snapping jaws. But I must remember that I am often like lightening and thunder to puppies who've barely opened their eyes.

How can we as individuals have more empathy for ourselves and others?

Thank you for indulging me.


A bit proud of yourself there, aren't you? :roll:



Iammyowngod
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15 Feb 2014, 3:46 pm

DarkRain wrote:
A bit proud of yourself there, aren't you? :roll:


Pride is a virtue. Arrogance is not.



em_tsuj
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15 Feb 2014, 3:49 pm

I think you are misusing the word empathy. Empathy is when you feel what someone else feels. Are you instead thinking of sympathy? Sympathy is when you feel bad about another person's suffering.

I believe the pain of having AS is a lack of empathy. It is impossible to have empathy when you think very differently from others. There are so many unstated assumptions when interacting with others, based on how we would feel in a specific situation or what our intentions would be if we took a specific action or what our definition of a specific word or phrase means. The only way to truly understand each other is to listen intently to other people trying to read between the lines and to ask questions when you are unsure about the meaning behind someone's words or actions. The overwhelming majority of people that I have met are not willing to do this. They trust their initial interpretation of events. I only learned how to really hear other people and understand their perspective by working as a mental health professional and obtaining a degree in psychology. I still lack empathy however. I have an intellectual understanding of where other people are coming from, not an emotional one.



JSBACHlover
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15 Feb 2014, 3:49 pm

Your thoughts remind me of those which I had when I was in my 20s. I couldn't fit in, felt the perpetual outsider, and tried to justify myself by seeing the world as a phony place, in which people live unexamined lives of mediocrity.

In the 20 years since I felt that way, I have changed my tune. For starters, I learned quickly that I had to get along in the world to make a living, which meant learning to be polite. More importantly, I decided that what I really was, deep down, was miserable! I began to change, to slowly become friends with NTs, to learn from them, to learn to be comfortable with them. In the process, I discovered that most NTs are decent and intelligent people who are just trying to do their best, just like me.

And when I learned this, I learned empathy.

I would encourage you to begin to see the NT world not as the enemy, but as a realm to be entered and conquered. If I (Moderately functioning super-awkward ASD) can do it, I am certain you can. It takes work. A therapist can help. I promise you. You won't lose your inner identity. In fact, you'll be able to show the world how amazing you are as you learn social skills. You'll suddenly wake up one day and find that you are happy and at peace. It's a wonderful feeling. I encourage you to move in that direction.



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15 Feb 2014, 3:50 pm

Empathy begins with removing judgment (that they're beneath you and stupid) and paying attention to what's real and relevant to them: their perspective, their needs, and their emotions. What you're displaying here is not empathy.



Iammyowngod
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15 Feb 2014, 3:53 pm

My apologies. I won't bother you again.



kicker
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15 Feb 2014, 3:53 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:
Your thoughts remind me of those which I had when I was in my 20s. I couldn't fit in, felt the perpetual outsider, and tried to justify myself by seeing the world as a phony place, in which people live unexamined lives of mediocrity.

In the 20 years since I felt that way, I have changed my tune. For starters, I learned quickly that I had to get along in the world to make a living, which meant learning to be polite. More importantly, I decided that what I really was, deep down, was miserable! I began to change, to slowly become friends with NTs, to learn from them, to learn to be comfortable with them. In the process, I discovered that most NTs are decent and intelligent people who are just trying to do their best, just like me.

And when I learned this, I learned empathy.

I would encourage you to begin to see the NT world not as the enemy, but as a realm to be entered and conquered. If I (Moderately functioning super-awkward ASD) can do it, I am certain you can. It takes work. A therapist can help. I promise you. You won't lose your inner identity. In fact, you'll be able to show the world how amazing you are as you learn social skills. You'll suddenly wake up one day and find that you are happy and at peace. It's a wonderful feeling. I encourage you to move in that direction.


Well said.



JSBACHlover
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15 Feb 2014, 4:05 pm

Iammyowngod wrote:
My apologies. I won't bother you again.

HEY!
Seriously -- you are new here, and we Aspies are a special club! We are here to encourage and help you. I apologize for those you sniped at you on this thread. (But remember, Aspies can be blunt!) However, most of us are here to mentor and encourage.



coffeebean
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15 Feb 2014, 4:54 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:
Iammyowngod wrote:
My apologies. I won't bother you again.

HEY!
Seriously -- you are new here, and we Aspies are a special club! We are here to encourage and help you. I apologize for those you sniped at you on this thread. (But remember, Aspies can be blunt!) However, most of us are here to mentor and encourage.


What I said was the truth, not a snipe. Believing that looking at someone like a dog and treating them like a dog is empathetic blocks real empathy from developing.



JSBACHlover
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15 Feb 2014, 4:57 pm

I know, coffee, you are right, but this guy needs a bit of help from us. I fear, however, that he's written all of us off now. :(



coffeebean
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15 Feb 2014, 5:10 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:
I know, coffee, you are right, but this guy needs a bit of help from us. I fear, however, that he's written all of us off now. :(


That's his choice. I don't believe in flat-out calling people terrible, telling them to go die, etc, but I also don't believe in pampering and being gentle with arrogant and degrading ways of looking at and treating others.



delaSHANE
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15 Feb 2014, 5:12 pm

He doesn't want help. His passive-aggressive response to the other comments made that perfectly clear.



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15 Feb 2014, 5:26 pm

...



Last edited by Willard on 17 Feb 2014, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aspendos
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15 Feb 2014, 6:36 pm

Iammyowngod wrote:
I exist outside of "society", all of those who are wired for obedience are as fish in water, they simply exist in it, accept it....never deeply questioning it. I on the other hand look at them and see the chains which bind them, those same chains they see as safety cables protecting them from the unknown. I am deep, I know myself and continue on the path of self-knowledge. It can be frustrating feeling as though I am a cat among dogs. I watch them behave as dogs, doing things which disgust me, simply doing them because they have been told/taught to do them. I peek behind the curtain and cry out "your god/govt is an old man in filthy rags, come and see", they recoil because they believe I am speaking of their father. They have bonded to the god/govt. I can choose one of two paths....I can rage at them for their shallow stupidity and conformity. Or, I can have empathy, it is my pride and my humility which allow me this choice, this ability. No, they are not like me...but I can have empathy for them. I can show them I care by speaking to them the way one speaks to a terrified dog....with tenderness. Should they bite I can then, and only then smack them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and defend myself from their snapping jaws. But I must remember that I am often like lightening and thunder to puppies who've barely opened their eyes.

How can we as individuals have more empathy for ourselves and others?

Thank you for indulging me.


Read Nietzsche much? Zarathustra maybe?

I seem to remember that "JSBACHlover" mentioned in another thread that he's a Catholic priest - and you call yourself "Iammyowngod" ... blasphemy!

You're right, of course, just that marauding dogs won't really care for your empathy (or philosophy). Get too close to a pack of rabid hounds and they'll tear you to pieces. That's been my experience with humans, too.



JSBACHlover
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15 Feb 2014, 7:04 pm

Yes, I am a Catholic priest with Asperger's. I understand that young people can become bitter, because they feel deeply hurt, and they react by hardening their hearts. It makes sense. When the world has hurt you, it's only logical to withdraw.

I'm here to try to soften their hearts, to lead them into health and happiness. This may surprise some of you, but I was for a time an atheist. The Lord intervened directly and softened my heart, so I am hear to help others. I do hope the O.P. comes back.