Researchers find clues to Autism in our genes and our gut

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goldfish21
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08 Mar 2014, 6:03 am

Link: http://www.theprovince.com/health/Researchers+find+clues+autism+genes/9586070/story.html

There's a 6min TEDxCaltech video w/ the article, too - give it a watch/listen and the article a read.


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linatet
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08 Mar 2014, 6:30 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Link: http://www.theprovince.com/health/Researchers+find+clues+autism+genes/9586070/story.html

There's a 6min TEDxCaltech video w/ the article, too - give it a watch/listen and the article a read.

this reminds me of Dr. Goldberg, he says autism is actually caused by problems with the immune system and allergy to gluten etc that end up affecting the development of the brain. He suggests treatment with diet and medicine that combat those agents. That would be why there is so much overlap between ahdh, autism, ocd, etc
it is interesting because they say today's autism is different than the cases described in other times and it should be approached by medicine not psychology.



Last edited by linatet on 08 Mar 2014, 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Woodpecker
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08 Mar 2014, 6:40 am

Be careful it is not another false lead like the work of wakefield, he claimed all manner of things about MMR jabs and autism and guts.


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linatet
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08 Mar 2014, 6:55 am

Woodpecker wrote:
Be careful it is not another false lead like the work of wakefield, he claimed all manner of things about MMR jabs and autism and guts.

I have to admit I don't know enough of biology to judge whether the theories are plausible or not, if they are consistent.
about Dr. Goldberg, he says that autism as a neurological difference is presented from birth. If it is those new cases when an child develops normally until 3 years or so and then stops talking and presents autism-like symptoms, that is because they are affected by this neuro-immune medical disease that is treatable.



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08 Mar 2014, 10:08 am

Why do I get the feeling this is going to be one of those 'autism isn't to do with neurology, its all in your gut, just need to change your diet and it will go away' type theories?

ah, perhaps because it is:

"In a paper published recently in Cell, Hsiao and other researchers describe how they caused autism-like symptoms in mice by injecting them with a virus-like molecule. Then, with the use of probiotics containing Bacteroides Fragilis, they were able to repair the barrier function of the gut, and also reduce the behavioural symptoms."

So knowingly injecting mice with a virus like molecule that causes autism like symptoms means autism is caused by a virus and can be fixed by pro-biotics? What evidence to they have to suggest this virus like injection actually mimics what happens to create autistic people. All this shows is maybe some viruses could cause autism like symptoms that could be treated by treating the virus or whatever....but I'd question if those would be examples of real autism.

I mean people can get delusional and hallucinate if they have a fever.....doesn't mean fever=schizophrenia.


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linatet
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08 Mar 2014, 10:25 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Why do I get the feeling this is going to be one of those 'autism isn't to do with neurology, its all in your gut, just need to change your diet and it will go away' type theories?

ah, perhaps because it is:

"In a paper published recently in Cell, Hsiao and other researchers describe how they caused autism-like symptoms in mice by injecting them with a virus-like molecule. Then, with the use of probiotics containing Bacteroides Fragilis, they were able to repair the barrier function of the gut, and also reduce the behavioural symptoms."

So knowingly injecting mice with a virus like molecule that causes autism like symptoms means autism is caused by a virus and can be fixed by pro-biotics? What evidence to they have to suggest this virus like injection actually mimics what happens to create autistic people. All this shows is maybe some viruses could cause autism like symptoms that could be treated by treating the virus or whatever....but I'd question if those would be examples of real autism.

I mean people can get delusional and hallucinate if they have a fever.....doesn't mean fever=schizophrenia.

this is exactly what some researchers say, that those autism-like symptoms caused by allergy, virus etc are not autism. And that many kids today diagnosed with autism actually don't have it, but a medical disease; and this is how they explain why 50 years ago autism ratio was only 1 in 10000.
it seems plausible but I don't know much of biology. I wish someone that does could agree or disagree and explain it to me.



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08 Mar 2014, 10:55 am

linatet wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Why do I get the feeling this is going to be one of those 'autism isn't to do with neurology, its all in your gut, just need to change your diet and it will go away' type theories?

ah, perhaps because it is:

"In a paper published recently in Cell, Hsiao and other researchers describe how they caused autism-like symptoms in mice by injecting them with a virus-like molecule. Then, with the use of probiotics containing Bacteroides Fragilis, they were able to repair the barrier function of the gut, and also reduce the behavioural symptoms."

So knowingly injecting mice with a virus like molecule that causes autism like symptoms means autism is caused by a virus and can be fixed by pro-biotics? What evidence to they have to suggest this virus like injection actually mimics what happens to create autistic people. All this shows is maybe some viruses could cause autism like symptoms that could be treated by treating the virus or whatever....but I'd question if those would be examples of real autism.

I mean people can get delusional and hallucinate if they have a fever.....doesn't mean fever=schizophrenia.

this is exactly what some researchers say, that those autism-like symptoms caused by allergy, virus etc are not autism. And that many kids today diagnosed with autism actually don't have it, but a medical disease; and this is how they explain why 50 years ago autism ratio was only 1 in 10000.
it seems plausible but I don't know much of biology. I wish someone that does could agree or disagree and explain it to me.


At the same time 50 years ago they had even less knowledge about neurology...so I think there is a good chance plenty of people with autism were being missed. It is certainly possible some kids diagnosed today, might have another underlying issue causing their autism like symptoms but also people with autism probably could have problems in the gut too that aren't 'causing' their symptoms...maybe in some cases an underlying medical problem simply makes the autism symptoms more apparent but they still have autistic neurology..


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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08 Mar 2014, 1:29 pm

Okay, there's the father who writes about regularly giving his autistic teenage son, now a young man, whipworm eggs specific to pig. Yuck factor . . . but the father says it seems to work. I'd like to know what this son thinks.

The hypothesis that some cases of autism are caused by inflammation.

And the second idea of "we miss our worms," or more technically, helminth replacement therapy. In one study of people who suffered from a specific type of irritable bowel syndrome about 40% of the study participants were significantly helped by pig whipworms.

Okay, wow, so the pig whipworm eggs won't last longer than about a month and are unlikely to spread to other people, kind of no harm, no foul. It's a free roll. It is works, great. If it doesn't, well, nothing really lost.

So, for people so inclined, maybe try it ever so casually, without investing a lot of time, money, or hope.

A substantial harm to outlandish medical treatment is false hope. The person is hoping for a miracle cure and not appreciating their autistic child or themselves for the person they are in the here and now. The person is potentially missing things like teaching sign language to their child, and/or typing on a keyboard. More broadly, the person might be missing the whole approach of playing to strength, being matter-of-fact about deficiencies.



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08 Mar 2014, 1:42 pm

Another idea with the gut is that people on the spectrum have trouble with sulfur metabolism anyway and have a gut bacteria that uses up available sulfur reserves by causing the body to defend itself from a chemical used in bacteria-to-bacteria turf battles.
http://www.economist.com/node/21560523 <-- and look about two thirds of the way down

Again, please don't overly invest in any one idea. Or, something might help some people on the spectrum but not others.



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08 Mar 2014, 2:00 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
linatet wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Why do I get the feeling this is going to be one of those 'autism isn't to do with neurology, its all in your gut, just need to change your diet and it will go away' type theories?

ah, perhaps because it is:

"In a paper published recently in Cell, Hsiao and other researchers describe how they caused autism-like symptoms in mice by injecting them with a virus-like molecule. Then, with the use of probiotics containing Bacteroides Fragilis, they were able to repair the barrier function of the gut, and also reduce the behavioural symptoms."

So knowingly injecting mice with a virus like molecule that causes autism like symptoms means autism is caused by a virus and can be fixed by pro-biotics? What evidence to they have to suggest this virus like injection actually mimics what happens to create autistic people. All this shows is maybe some viruses could cause autism like symptoms that could be treated by treating the virus or whatever....but I'd question if those would be examples of real autism.

I mean people can get delusional and hallucinate if they have a fever.....doesn't mean fever=schizophrenia.

this is exactly what some researchers say, that those autism-like symptoms caused by allergy, virus etc are not autism. And that many kids today diagnosed with autism actually don't have it, but a medical disease; and this is how they explain why 50 years ago autism ratio was only 1 in 10000.
it seems plausible but I don't know much of biology. I wish someone that does could agree or disagree and explain it to me.


At the same time 50 years ago they had even less knowledge about neurology...so I think there is a good chance plenty of people with autism were being missed. It is certainly possible some kids diagnosed today, might have another underlying issue causing their autism like symptoms but also people with autism probably could have problems in the gut too that aren't 'causing' their symptoms...maybe in some cases an underlying medical problem simply makes the autism symptoms more apparent but they still have autistic neurology..

I am one of those people. I don't have an "autistic neurology" I just have brain dysfunctions caused by toxins. Some people say that NTs are like PCs and Aspies are like macs. I'm like a Windows 2000 computer with viruses. I'm not saying that "macs" don't exist I'm just saying that viruses exist as well.


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08 Mar 2014, 2:59 pm

DevilKisses wrote:
I am one of those people. I don't have an "autistic neurology" I just have brain dysfunctions caused by toxins. Some people say that NTs are like PCs and Aspies are like macs. I'm like a Windows 2000 computer with viruses. I'm not saying that "macs" don't exist I'm just saying that viruses exist as well.


Nice analogy. That's pretty much been my experience, as per the thread in my sig that I shared months ago. Although, I still prefer to call it a food chemical induced drug trip. Also, as I said in that thread and this article now confirms - it's likely a combination of genetic predisposition + gut dysbiosis & food chemicals/toxins.


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08 Mar 2014, 3:14 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
DevilKisses wrote:
I am one of those people. I don't have an "autistic neurology" I just have brain dysfunctions caused by toxins. Some people say that NTs are like PCs and Aspies are like macs. I'm like a Windows 2000 computer with viruses. I'm not saying that "macs" don't exist I'm just saying that viruses exist as well.


Nice analogy. That's pretty much been my experience, as per the thread in my sig that I shared months ago. Although, I still prefer to call it a food chemical induced drug trip. Also, as I said in that thread and this article now confirms - it's likely a combination of genetic predisposition + gut dysbiosis & food chemicals/toxins.


Hey goldfish! :D

I have a horrible allergy or something to gluten. I don't know what it is exactly because I suffered for 10 years with what doctors called IBS because they ruled everything else out that could be tested - but when I stopped eating gluten it went away. My autism on the other hand, not even remotely improved. I'm now in the process of ridding my diet of of highly processes sugars (not even any ketchup - maybe I need to change my avatar)! :D

I really think there is some kind of link between autism and gut, but I am skeptical of your idea that the gut problem causes the autism in whole. But if the sugar stoppage helps me I'll let you know. I have really lately come to an appreciation that our brain is often controlled by other parts of our body, I think any organ can do it under certain circumstances. So it's not impossible that you are right, I'm just skeptical is all.



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09 Mar 2014, 3:18 pm

wozeree wrote:
Hey goldfish! :D

I have a horrible allergy or something to gluten. I don't know what it is exactly because I suffered for 10 years with what doctors called IBS because they ruled everything else out that could be tested - but when I stopped eating gluten it went away. My autism on the other hand, not even remotely improved. I'm now in the process of ridding my diet of of highly processes sugars (not even any ketchup - maybe I need to change my avatar)! :D

I really think there is some kind of link between autism and gut, but I am skeptical of your idea that the gut problem causes the autism in whole. But if the sugar stoppage helps me I'll let you know. I have really lately come to an appreciation that our brain is often controlled by other parts of our body, I think any organ can do it under certain circumstances. So it's not impossible that you are right, I'm just skeptical is all.


That's great; glad to hear you're trying something different to see if you can get some positive results out of it! 8)

I'd be skeptical had I not experienced this for myself, too. But I have, and it's been wonderful, so I openly share it with anyone interested in hearing it, learning it, potentially trying it for themselves. Like I said in that thread months ago - don't take my word for it, I don't expect you to. Try it out for a couple weeks and see if you start noticing the same improvements I did. It's really as simple as that.


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