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Juggernaut
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15 Mar 2014, 8:36 am

I'm super skeptical of claims about Autism being linked to "toxins", and I thought the whole concept had been pretty much debunked at this point. So, my question is, is Time here being sensationalistic, and if so, what are the real implications of the study?

http://time.com/25424/growing-evidence- ... pollution/



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15 Mar 2014, 9:20 am

It hasn't been debunked, there is very strong evidence that environmental factors play major role in autism. FYI this refers to environmental factors in utero.



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15 Mar 2014, 9:39 am

the only thing that was debunked was the study that linked Mercury in infant vaccines to autism, and it was just that study not even the basic concept because the researcher used unethical practices to skew his results. (though the mercury amts are so minute they probably don't cause any harm.)


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yournamehere
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15 Mar 2014, 10:02 am

I remember being a child. I was born this way. People have been born like this since time has been written about time, and will still be born like this until time stops. It's not the water, or whatever, and not any more or less of a problem than a whole lot of other people with differences. In fact, it can be influential. People who do not understand things blow them all out of proportion. Especially those conspiracy quacks on the internet, and public radio. One guy in particular with OCD comes to mind. From what he says about autism, and how people get it, if he knew me, I would be demanding a public apology. In fact, I wouldn't mind kicking him all over the place.



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15 Mar 2014, 10:05 am

I would be imprudent to be "skeptical" about any proclamations linking autism to specific environmental virulences that can be mitigated. To exemplify in retrospective accounts, studies have definitely proven that prenatal subjection to thalidomide (cases of induced embryopathy) and sodium valproate can explicate an infinitesimal subset of ASD cases.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8157157

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23613074


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15 Mar 2014, 1:07 pm

yournamehere wrote:
I remember being a child. I was born this way. People have been born like this since time has been written about time, and will still be born like this until time stops. It's not the water, or whatever, and not any more or less of a problem than a whole lot of other people with differences. In fact, it can be influential. People who do not understand things blow them all out of proportion. Especially those conspiracy quacks on the internet, and public radio. One guy in particular with OCD comes to mind. From what he says about autism, and how people get it, if he knew me, I would be demanding a public apology. In fact, I wouldn't mind kicking him all over the place.

You could have been born that way for a reason linked to pollution. It's always good to be skeptical, but this study seems compelling. I will believe the science wherever it leads.



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15 Mar 2014, 3:51 pm

Sometimes I wonder if there is anything that hasn't been linked to autism.

Environmental factors are important for all kind of health issues, from cancer to fertility to the common cough andmental health issues. But they are globally a mess. In the western world our way of living has changed incredibly in the last century :
- Different diet (carbs/proteins/fat balance, vegetal/animal balance, etc.)
- Different food (food preparation has changed a lot due to new appliances, fashions and ways of eating, and crops/cattle are grown/raised in completely different ways)
- Pollution (atmospheric, in water, in food, etc.)
- Modern medicine (vaccines, and globally many more different drugs, much more readily available)
- Urbanization
- More generally, completely different material environment (omnious electric lighting, air conditioning, new transportation systems, etc.)
- Different social organization (for example living alone is much more common, and family structures have changed a lot)
- Different ways to work
- Different education system
- Everything computers and modern telcos changed
(- We could go on for a very long time on various sociological aspects)

I am quite convinced that most, if not all, of those have an impact on many aspects of everyone's health. But I think that in many cases that influence comes from a combination of many factors and therefore attempts to link a condition to a single cause are doomed. If there is a "formula" to understand the problem it is likely not something simple like "X causes autism" but more likeley "X, Y, the absence or Z, the presence of A or B, and either the absence of C or the presence of D, is almost guaranteed to produce an autistic individual".

To take an example that is both completely unrelated and about something easier to measure than autism and mental health, let's take male fertility. It has been known for a while that sperm quality (concentration of spermatozoids and proportion of viable spermatozoids) has been plummeting in western Europe during the last decades. In France, for example, both have fallen by about 30%. This is thought to be caused by environmental or lifestyle factors such as pollution, diet or alcool consumption. A recent study has mapped the evolution of sperm quality between 1989 and 2005 in various areas of France, and has found that indeed the evolution is completely different depending on the location. In some areas, like the south west, the fall is the strongest, whereas in brittany for example sperm quality has actually got better. The scientist are trying to draw correlations between the evolution and some specificities of each area, but they are struggling. It looks like genetics play no role, alcohol consumption is not significant at all (brittons for example are quite heavy drinkers), atmospheric pollution does not seem to matter much either (zones with very high population density do not suffer from an outstanding loss). Diet in general does not seem to matter (people from the southwest globally have a quite healthy diet). The most significant thing they have found until now is use of pesticides for agriculture, but it does not completely match the data either. That is just an exemple, but it shows that science is struggling to find the causes of even a phenomenon that is easy to characterize and to measure, where data is available, and where genetic factors have been ruled out. Autism (and most mental health issues) fits none of those criteria. So I think we should not expect a complete explanation any time soon.


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15 Mar 2014, 5:31 pm

:D I thought for some reason this was going to be some theory that Asperger's causes pollution hah, my mind is not working today.

I think its unlikely that pollution causes Asperger's, if it did than surely it would be more wide spread than it is.



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17 Mar 2014, 12:05 pm

AspE wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
I remember being a child. I was born this way. People have been born like this since time has been written about time, and will still be born like this until time stops. It's not the water, or whatever, and not any more or less of a problem than a whole lot of other people with differences. In fact, it can be influential. People who do not understand things blow them all out of proportion. Especially those conspiracy quacks on the internet, and public radio. One guy in particular with OCD comes to mind. From what he says about autism, and how people get it, if he knew me, I would be demanding a public apology. In fact, I wouldn't mind kicking him all over the place.

You could have been born that way for a reason linked to pollution. It's always good to be skeptical, but this study seems compelling. I will believe the science wherever it leads.


I was born and raised in one of the cleanest states in the country, with some of the purest well water in the world. I believe it is genetic. Possibly mostly from european decent. I also think we may have been purposefully interbred into populatiions due to qualitive issues a very long time ago. Fortunately there is really no way to know for sure, so we can make up whatever reason we want. :lol:



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17 Mar 2014, 12:10 pm

Everything gives you Autism...


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17 Mar 2014, 4:23 pm

I think this is weak. It's a correlational study, using the proxy of certain types of congenital physical malformations as an indicator of toxin load, and correlating that with autism.

It's indicative, but I want a lot more data, and preferably a study reaching the same conclusions using different methods. It may be part of the story, but I don't think it's the whole story.


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17 Mar 2014, 10:47 pm

yournamehere wrote:

I was born and raised in one of the cleanest states in the country, with some of the purest well water in the world. I believe it is genetic. Possibly mostly from european decent. I also think we may have been purposefully interbred into populatiions due to qualitive issues a very long time ago. Fortunately there is really no way to know for sure, so we can make up whatever reason we want. :lol:

Alaska?



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17 Mar 2014, 11:57 pm

without solid proof am finding it hard to believe this, toxins coud be causing similar symptoms in the same way mercury does.
as the saying goes;corrolation doesnt equal causation.

Dreycrux wrote:
Everything gives you Autism...

yep,just remember when PETA did 'an andrew wakefield' and released an advert saying that milk causes autism-am highly aware of how awful the dairy industry is towards cows but think its just as irresponsible to release shte like that.


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18 Mar 2014, 10:45 pm

My parents gave me autism. Bbbbbbbiiiiiiiiittttttttttcccccccchhhhhheeeeeessssssss!! !! !! !! !!



yournamehere
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19 Mar 2014, 10:39 am

AspE wrote:
yournamehere wrote:

I was born and raised in one of the cleanest states in the country, with some of the purest well water in the world. I believe it is genetic. Possibly mostly from european decent. I also think we may have been purposefully interbred into populatiions due to qualitive issues a very long time ago. Fortunately there is really no way to know for sure, so we can make up whatever reason we want. :lol:

Alaska?


I tried to find some statistic that said people born in alaska do not have autism because everything is soo pure, and untamed, and there is not one. It must be the fish.



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26 Mar 2014, 10:22 pm

My follow up would be that nowhere is really free of pollution. It's captured in the ice of Greenland for example.