How to think more socially, i.e. think neurotypically.

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I have thought about it, and it is actually quite simple.

AS people tend to see details, while NTs tend to view the big picture. What does that mean?

In terms of people, it means that AS people tend to view people as seperate individuals trying to survive, i.e. that people are fundamentally of equal worth.

On the other hand, NT people tend more to view people as one big unit trying to survive (hence they are social), i.e. that people are fundamentally not of equal worth, their worth only goes as far as to the extent to which they can contribute to the group (which means the worth of autistics is often quite or extremely low!). A boss can contribute with more than a common coworker, hence should be treated with more respect and have more privileges.


A good way to get better at seing the big picture is to:

- Think in people.
- Think of how "big" people are. If all people constitute nothing but one big unit trying to survive, it is more important for the survival of the unit that the "big" individuals survive, etc.
- The survival of an individual is only important to the extent to which he can and will contribute to the survival of the big unit.


When I write these things I clearly realize how much all of this is completely against my nature. I cannot stand thinking this way, it feels as if life becomes completely meaningless. Nevertheless, if I want to function in a job etc., I will have to adopt this view to a much larger degree than I would like to.

You say this is how NT people "tend" to think. I would dispute even that. However, you acknowledge that there are NTs who don't think like that. Therefore, it is not necessary to think like that to succeed socially. Indeed, from experience I know that the people who do think like that are social failures. The people who succeed are those who value individuals.

Hi The_Walrus.

I know this could be seen as me trying to put NTs in a negative light. It is really not. That is only because of my "black-and-white" view on the situation it could come out that way. I am completely aware of that.

NTs can be more or less social, depending on their personality, so this is also a matter of degrees.

Also, social NTs mostly do not mean it this "evil way" of inequality between people. They only think of it as a minor necessity to maintain good group dynamics, because the group is what matters the most to them. They see this "battle" about who is "the bigger one" as "social play". Just as when dogs play fight.

What I have written is for a "black-and-white" thinker to understand how to think in "grays" (i.e. think in social terms).


NTs could oppositely claim that AS people are selfish (i.e. do not care about the group) in that they would often rather not be part of the group than put up with this "social play" which might appear as maltreatment to a person with AS.


This goes both ways, I am very well aware of that. AS people are not excused, blessed or anything with this "people-equality", they are just a minority, which makes it much harder for them.

I still claim that what I wrote is the recipe for better blending in with NTs, overall. Socially successful people indeed value individuals, but only to the extent to which that individual contributes to the group. The group comes before the individual.

Socially successful people know that they should obey the "bigger guys" in their group if they want to avoid being bullied and still be accepted in their group.

The definitive guide for how NT people think is Ford's Field Guide To Earthlings. It is written specifically to explain NT people to AS people.

http://www.afieldguidetoearthlings.com/index.html

NT people do have a more social orientation but this is described more fully and accurately in Ford's book. Trying to boil it down to a simple dichotomy just doesn't work.

NT's don't always desire to think about the "group." Individual egos are important to them. They frequently feel forced into thinking collectively. This is why Communism will never work.

To relate to an NT, one must put themselves in that person's "shoes." Shared experience is the most important consideration in relating to people. People with ASD's have that capacity, though it doesn't "come naturally" to them. I believe most NT's will make the attempt to listen to a person with ASD's, especially on an individual level. Unfortunately, at times in a group setting, the Yahoo NT's win out, and the person with an ASD is left feeling lonely, humiliated, etc. I've had that happen to me on numerous occasions. This is especially so in pre-adult society.

Can an aspie think like an NT? I've always understood Aspergers Syndrome as a physical 'rewiring' of the brain so if this is true then we can't think like an NT. It's like me saying to you, think like President Obama, you've no idea because you don't know what's going through his mind.

I think it's a matter of degree really. There is an overlap between autistic and NT thinking. In certain situations, people on the Spectrum could think, at least superficially, like an NT. There are times, when the situation warrants it, that NT's engage in what would be, superficially, autistic thinking.

I don't believe there is an absolute separation, caused by the "wiring" of the NT and that of a person on the Spectrum, which would render one incomprehensible to the other.

NTs don't tend to see the bigger picture, they see both the bigger picture and details (granted, there are many that miss 'details', though not 'autistic' details). Those with ASD view things in detail by default, but they can be be 'directed' or taught to look for the bigger picture just as an NT does naturally. Obviously there are variations on both sides, especially on the NT side, as there are far more NT individuals than ASD individuals.

When it is said that autistics have 'detail oriented thinking', it doesn't mean that if you have autism, you will notice more mistakes on an assignment, paint smaller and acute details onto a canvas, or consider people as individuals rather than groups. It means that individuals with ASD tend to get bogged down in the details (i.e. paying too much attention to a certain thing and going beyond what is necessary/appropriate) and 'forget' that there is a bigger picture. This is something that as I said above, can be changed. Even if not changed, if focus somehow falls onto a detail of importance, great results may present.

Actually I'm the opposite. I see the big picture and although I do see a lot details most miss I still miss common little details that NT's spot right away.

I have met many many selfish NT's. The advantage they have over me is that they tend to have more innate knowledge of group dynamics that they use for selfish ends.

Selfishness is universal.

Everybody is capable of being both selfish and generous, whether they have a disability or not.

This has been my experience and that of other aspies I know. On you other point, I will have to respectfully disagree. Collectivism (viewing society as an entity in itself) is not incompatible with egalitarianism, neither does Individualism (viewing society as being made up of only a collection of individuals) require it.

I am both a collectivist and egalitarian (which tends to be called a socialist political viewpoint). The society I live in seems to be transitioning from one which was individualist and egalitarian to one which is individualist but where people are regarded as "not of equal worth".


This is a rather common misconception. I recall reading in a mainstream paper recently, that some the lowest paying jobs actually contributed most to the economy and society, and some of the highest paying jobs actually destroy social value. Rates of pay, particularly in a corporate situation, are determined by the position of the job within the companies' hierarchy. These hierarchies are in turn driven by social relations and the idea that a manager "should be" above the people s/he is managing.

Qawer - You are brilliant.

Shame on you for not having a website or blog. Your writing is great.

Where did you get your ideas about social thought and group mentality?

Thank you JonAZ.

It is developed from personal experience and by studying group dynamics among dogs, cats etc. And quite a lot of thinking

I don't try to "think" neurotypically, I just go out and try not to act all weird and discombobulated and refrain from speaking when I know I have nothing to contribute.