How to solve the social interaction dilemma?

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I know some autistic people here are OK living basically on their own and avoiding social interaction. (I don't refer to whether or not you need support for your everyday life, more to the emotional and social part of living with someone and seeing people.)

Well, I'm not. I can live on my own and avoid most social contact (I have done it for a while a few years ago before getting my dx) but it just looks like a dull and mildly depressing life to me. People are just fascinating. I am interested in them (well, not all of them but some of them). They think in ways I don't (both as neurotypicals and as, you know, different persons), do things I can't or won't, and are basically an endless source of new ideas and questioning for myself. Plus, some people care about me and are good to me (or, at least, try very hard to be) and I want to be good to them in return and give them what I can to help them be happier.

But achieving a more or less "normal" in-depth social interaction is so much stress, anxiety and energy loss for me that I am afraid of it and find myself constantly avoiding it as some kind of protection reflex. And if I bypass it and make efforts to relate more with other people, it makes me literally exhausted and depressed (which, in addition to being unpleasant, makes me bad at social interaction and is therefore counter-productive).

So it seems like I am longing for something I can't really achieve. I feel a bit like a moth circling a flame and don't know how to solve that. No compromise seems to work. A very low level of social interaction is boring is not enough for most NT to feel they relate to me, and a higher level of social interaction is just too much anxiety and effort.

If you can relate, how did you solve that?

Another problem is that this is something that is very hard to explain to NT. Or maybe it is especially difficult for them to understand it. There are some neurotypical persons that care for me and really make efforts to understand me, but even they seem to have trouble understanding it in a different way that "well, you need more time on your own". That is probably true, but it is not enough and it is not exactly the point. They seem to think that it is some kind of balance and I have to find the right spot, but it is not at all the way I feel. Spending more time alone makes me less anxious so I have a bit more energy for everything, including for social interaction when it happens. But that does not solve the background problem. Social interaction is just as demanding and anxiety-generating even if I haven't spoken with anyone for one week. (It can even make things worse in the long run because people tend to offload more emotional stuff in conversation when you haven't seen them for a while.)

Still, most people are not able to understand that and don't seem to get that living in a constant state of anxiety and fear of social interaction is just not an acceptable solution for me. I am willing to make efforts, but efforts in a constructive direction, not just efforts to put up with what I feel as constant emotional abuse, even if I can't really explain why and don't blame other people for it. The problem is that I don't have any other solution to propose!

I believe in the necessity of being "social" as well. I'm not well-inclined toward being "social" most of the time; I like to spend a considerable time alone. However, I do like to observe people, and to listen to conversations; this provides me with insight into what people are thinking. I need a lot of perspectives---what's presented in the news, in intellectual journals, and in the street--to form an impression, which might lead to an opinion which I could openly express to someone.

Whenever I insert myself into conversations, I "edit" myself. I ask myself: "Will what I say be relevant to what's being discussed at the moment?" Of course, I don't always "edit" myself--I insert my "2 cents," which might or might not be relevant--but which might steer the conversation toward something which will be relevant to ME. I'm not always successful in this, of course--and I get looks and expressions of irritation. It bothers me. I go off into another place more isolating, I ponder what I have done, ruminate over it for a few minutes, then "move on," knowing that what I did has just increased my knowledge of NT social dynamics. I am determined to be more successful in the future, for I need a place in the world, as well as in my own skin. I need a place in the autistic world, the NT world, and my own world.

Yes, it makes complete sense to me



I'm feeling the same. Getting my diagnosis got me a better understanding of what and who I am. But now I find that I have to find - or to make - a me-shaped hole where I could fit somewhere in the world. And I'm a bit struggling. There has to be a solution but I can't think of any. I was reasonably optimistic after my diagnosis but now sometimes I am a bit despaired and afraid that I could live my whole life with anxiety and a feeling of missed opportunity

As an introverted NT, my inclination probably has some overlap even if it's not quite the same. I like to be around people (enjoy their proximity but still consider myself an introvert) but get drained from having to be "on" for a long time. By "on" I mean animated interaction that takes a lot of social thought.

Can you have social interaction without too much social interaction? That seems like a logical impossibility, thus the stress. But I have found that it is possible to find situations where you can do just that. Socializing where you are totally absorbed in something other than the socializing works for me. Chess is the absolute best. You are completely focused on the game rather than scrambling for something appropriate to say, but it is still an interaction. Lots of cities have public chess tables and you can just take your pieces out there and sit down and soon enough somebody plays chess with you and you are socialicizing with them without actually having to be "on" other than thinking up the next move. Other board games work for this too, like Scrabble, though I haven't seen public Scrabble tables like there are public chess tables.

I haven't played sports much recently--but when I used to play sports, I never liked to talk. I just liked to "do." "Trash-talking" meant nothing to me. My task was to do the best I could do at all times, to be part of the team, to win.

Note: I was never good at sports, though I enjoyed playing them and still enjoy watching them. I have to get back into my walking/running--otherwise, I'll turn into a tub of lard!

I absolutely love board games too, I enjoy playing and I feel I am sharing something with other players But just playing games is not enough to create a true relationship with most people. They will expect more. I believe that for many NTs it is a bit like social smalltalk, a pretext to do some implicit relational stuff. Sometimes I feel that only children just play games for their own sake the same way I do.




I can't relate to that; I absolutely hate team sports and I am hopeless at them. Things like running and classes at the gym are useful to be fit but are terminally boring. The only sort of sport I can manage to seriously commit myself to is martial arts. But yes, for me sport is really not a social activity, and I have absolutely no desire for it to be one.

I see that you do a considerable amount of research.

What is your view on anecdotal, longitudinal studies over ones which employ neuroscience?

Board games do provide a social context, I believe. They could serve, at times, as a microcosm of the social-Darwinist-type of social relations which are prevalent amongst neurotypicals, thus providing an education for the Spectrumite who desires to understand neurotypicality.

Yep, I am a full time academic I even have a degree in cognitive science, but now I mostly do autonomous robotics, AI and machine learning. And I never did any clinical research or experimental biology. So I am not completely up to date on many neuroscience topics.



I don't think you can just oppose them. Both can be good or bad, and they usually measure very different things. Neuroscience studies usually work by studying specific hypothesis that directly depends on some aspect of brain behavior we can measure. Cohort studies can highlights trends and correlations on a scale (in terms of number of subjects and length of data collection) where using experimental neuroscience methods would be impractical or tremendously expensive. More importantly, both studies can be flawed ; methodology and statistical tools are extremely important. For example you were writing about fMRI in the other topic, it can be very useful but it is a tool with which it is incredibly easy to do bad science if you don't master data analysis techniques (see for example the so-called "voodoo correlations" or the hilarous dead salmon study).




Yep, I see what you refer to.

The thing is, I play games because making my mind (and those of other players) operate under an alternate set of rules is fun, original and refreshing. I try to win in games because one of the rules is usually that you should try to win, and that the game loses much interest if you don't. But the main difference with reality is that once the game is over it is over and you go on with something else. You can't "stop playing" your life (except by dying, which is a bit drastic), or restart the game, or try another game because the rules are not interesting enough.

Last edited by ouroborosUK on 07 Apr 2014, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe a lot of aspies prefer Isolation because of the possibility of failure? In the Love & Dating section there's a series of posts by a member who lives in San Francisco who just can't get the technique of social interaction right and I suspect that he's not alone. We therefore retreat into our comfort zones and spend yet another night in.

Some of our interests can however provide a starting point. I've been into Martial Arts for nearly fifty years and that's something which is difficult to practice alone so, once a week, I head out to the Dojo. Then there's Ham Radio, apart from talking to people 'on air' there are club meetings twice a month which is another excuse to open the front door and step outside.

Gym, maybe, it is possible to meet people there if you attend on a regular basis but it's also possible to workout alone.

I also play to win LOL, though I'm not super-competitive. I believe in good sportsmanship.

I don't tend to oppose ideas outright. I do have opinions and impressions, though--there is fluidity in my opinions, but there is a steadfastness in them as well. I enjoy the Socratic type of dialogue--perhaps a little more teacher-directed than the classic Socratic type. As far as autism is concerned, I'm pretty much a student, though I like to be listened to, like any neurotypical person likes to be listened to. I'm not a believer in "pure philosophies"--life is not the answer to a syllogism.

I also believe there is overlap between autistic and neurotypical thinking; I don't believe there's a strict separation between the neurological states. Neurotypicals must take the time to understand autism; vice versa for people with ASD's.

I believe that there is much potential in autism, that is untapped for various reasons. Temple Grandin was able to invent humane devices for animals; without an autistic perspective vis a vis animals, that would have been impossible.

It's difficult for neurotypicals to see beyond the superficial behaviors (e.g., stimming, social withdrawal); it evokes a certain amount of fear amongst them. Sensing this (despite allegations that autistic people lack "theory of mind,") it defers the person with autism from making the plunge into the neurotypical world.

Education must occur--predominently in the Dr. Martin Luther King/Gandhi mode, rather than the "angry" mode found in Malcolm X (especially in his earlier days) or Amari Baraka (who used to be known as Leroi Jones). I, myself, do not respond to angry outbursts, even if they're meant to educate.

A bit the same. In fact I make every effort to win, but I couldn't care less about whether I actually won or not. The only thing I care about is that the game was fun and interesting, and it usually happens when players have about the same level and do their best to win. But once someone has won the game is over, so who won has no importance of any sort.

I also love roleplaying games, where there is no winner and the whole point of the game is to create a good story and interesting characters.



I agree with you, I only realized this a few weeks ago. It is not just that some NT are intolerant people that reject what is different from them. Some of our behaviours unconsciously question and disrupt things that are important to their own sanity and sense of identity, and up to a point their rejection can be a protection reflex.

In some way, we really are monsters to them, like the monsters in the fairy tales or the children's fears, the ones that are not evil but just scary. The strange creatures you are afraid of because you can't understand what they are and they challenge your sense of identity and your conception of the world. Only children are afraid of monsters, but many people are childish.




Yes, it is familiar to me. And I think some NT who experience severe social anxiety can do the same.




Yes, I liked that too. I don't really object in doing sport with other people physically present, or even to 1-on-1 training in martial arts where the situation is just two persons helping each other get better at what they are doing. What I really don't like is the team dyamics, competition, violence, etc. that typically arise from group sports.


More generally, games, sports and activities are cool and indeed I got most of my social relationships through common activities and interests. But my girlfriend and some of her friend circles want more and/or something different. Maybe I just can't give it. But I don't want that to ruin my life.