question about high IQ and autism

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I watched a scientific program on TV about having a high IQ.
It was stated:
A high IQ is only possible having an excellent working memory.
All subtests (verbal, numerical, and visual-spacial) are interconnected in IQ-tests and if one scores good at one subtest one should automatically score good at the other substests.
But many autistic persons have executive dysfunction, and as far as I know executive dysfunction is also due to an impairment of working memory, I read it in many sources.
But there are as I read on this forum and also in other sources many autistic persons who have executive dysfunction, but a measured high IQ and scattered abilities in the subtests but a measured high IQ (this program was about genius range)
I also read about that schizophrenic persons often have measured high IQ's but on the other hand impaired executive function and impaired working memory.
I don't understand it, can anyone explain this?

I don't know your sources, but I question that as a fact.

I have horrible Executive Function where making and carrying out complex plans is concerned, but my memory is just fine and always has been. I wouldn't go so far as to say I had an eidetic memory, but it's pretty accurate, especially with visual images and language. A lot of autistics seem to have a gift for vocal mimicry as well, which requires a very specific and highly accurate and specialized memory sense.

I'm reaching the age where certain details are starting to fade, but I have a huge record collection and there was a time not too many years ago, when I could tell you exactly when and where I acquired every single one of them and what the weather was like that day.

OTOH, sometimes it can take me several encounters to remember a new person's name and if I haven't seen you in a couple of years, chances are I won't remember who you are (or at least where I know you from).

To clarify what working memory contains,I think it is not just a good or excellent memory, but more sort of interaction between abilities.
I also have a strong especially visual memory, it is like a film, but very bad executive dysfunction.

These things may be true for typically developing people. It's a difficult to comment on this because I don't know how they are defining "high IQ". The statement about high IQ only been possible with an excellent working memory is true because if you don't have an excellent working memory your FS IQ score, which is based on a combination of multiple indices, would be reduced by not having that excellent WMI score. Furthermore, typically developing people are expected to have a relatively even subtest scores say within one standard deviation of each other. With that being true, you would expect that a person's VCI,PRI,PSI to be approximately that of the WMI, therefore giving a high FS IQ. Conversely, if the WMI is low for a typically developing person you would expect the other scores to be within that narrow band giving a lower FS IQ.

All subtests should be interconnected and relatively equal for typically developing people. This is how the IQ tests are calibrated. Human intelligence is not built around IQ tests, rather IQ tests are built around human intelligence. If that makes any sense. Therefore a non-typically developing human will tend to have atypical IQ test scores. But of course this is not true for all people with ASD or schizophrenia. It is a tendency, but certainly not everyone has the that scatter. Statistically, it is not possible to have a genius level IQ with more than one standard deviation of scatter on an index level. It is possible to have a genius level IQ with some subtest scatter, one example being one or two subtests in the 10 range with all of the other subtests being 17 to 19. That is certainly considered significant scatter, but it is still possible to have an FS IQ in the genius range with that type of scatter.

I don't know if I've really answered any of your questions. I will leave you with a personal example. On my WMI index I hit the ceiling on arithmetic and digit span. On letter number sequencing my score was listed as invalid because I could not understand the instructions and my answers were given in an incorrect format. My prorated WMI was the maximum possible. But did the letter number sequencing issue show a sign of executive dysfunction? I don't know. My FS IQ was average despite the high WMI. Overall my FSIQ was invalid.

One last thing I forgot to mention. Sometimes people will call both FS IQ and GAI , the generic term "IQ". It is important to know which one is being discussed.

I just want to say that this example from the quote is also an example of why measures of intelligence can be poor measures of intelligence of atypical people. If a person does not hold two numbers in mind, does not consciously apply taught rules, does not keep track of calculations, yet can give you the correct answer. How do you measure that person's working memory, let alone understand it? The measure of memory in such a case would not correspond to the expected executive function and attention abilities and that person.

This is a good answer though I do not understand everything, I do not understand FS IQ and PSI and GAI, I do understand VCI and PRI, and I did a mistake in my original post: It was not about the subtests, but about the index level (if that means the 3 categories of verbal, numerical, and visual-spacial), but still I do understand your writing.
The definition of high IQ was 130+ but tending more to genius range 145+.
My IQ is also scattered and finally invalid, but I did not understand it in the beginning as I did not know anything about it, and first I thought my measurement was 127 (it was just one of the subtests which got pointed out and got stucked in my brain), but it was not the case, in fact my test was not even finished (I did the WAIS for diagnosis of autism and got the diagnosis before the test was finished), but I could not follow the talking.
Your knowledge about
IQ and testing is great.

Can you do it?
I cannot, I have dyscalculia and sometimes I think it is because of too strong visual thinking. There were this tests in the WAIS, someone with a bicycle departs from a certain place and another person from another place and stuff about distance and speed and in my visual thinking I saw the bicycles and turning wheels and the road and grass and the side of the road and stuff and I could not keep any information in my mind, and then there followed another test with tiles on the floor and I tried to count the tiles in my mind but it did not work out as I could not keep the measurements in my mind and with the third question I had a meltdown and they stopped it.

Thank you for writing.

I just think everyone is different, and although one might have a poor working memory in workaday situations, one might be fine with test problems because they are puzzles. At least that's the way I am. I'll forget where I hung my coat jacket, but I'll be thinking about a problem in my mind and able to keep all the variables in place to get it solved.

I took the same test as you for my diagnosis. I also remember the question that you mention here, and I saw it in a similar way. I visualized it also to "look at" where they meet for the answer. But I don't think I visualize as strongly as you do and that maybe the reason I am able to do this while you might have too much information to filter out. I don't know. I know there is a formula for this, but I am almost incapable of using formulas as I find them so confusing. I come to the same results as someone would with a formula, but it works completely different in my head. But the reality is in the modern world, with calculators and computers, is an almost worthless skill.I also made them stop in the middle of one of the subtests, so I can go outside and pace, because I couldn't stand it. That episode was also noted in my evaluation report.

Thank you for the compliment. I apologize for being unclear. I forget that I should not assume that everyone is familiar with the same terms that I use. The confusion is my fault. FS IQ stands for full scale IQ and is comprised of the following:


Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI)
Perceptual Reasoning Index (PRI)
Working Memory Index (WMI)
Processing Speed Index (PSI)

GAI stands for general ability Index. Rather than explain what it is let me give you this link that will give you a brief overview of what it is and how it's used. I just want to add that GAI I would be given as a score similar to a full-scale IQ score, example 127.

http://www.mcandrewslaw.com/publications-and-presentations/articles/when-to-use-the-general-ability-index-in-assessing-eligibility-of-special-education-students/

Thank you, it is good to feel you share the experience of this test.
In my country it is very late now and I need sleep.
You do not need to apologize for using the specific terms and thank you for clarifying them, but in a special interest I also use the specific terms and in my mind people have the knowledge I do,but this is autism I guess,
really no need to apologize,
am very happy to learn from you, because I am very much interested in it, but my knowledge is not as profound and maybe not even profound enough to discuss about it in depth,
but I have an interest in it,
and like to learn about it.

Knowledge comes one small step at a time. Interest is the seed that grows into knowledge. Soon you will be an expert. Good night Eloa

Don't confound long term memory with working memory which is more like a short term memory. On a computer analogy working memory would be RAM and long term memory the hard drive. You can have a good hard drive while having a bad RAM.

I have horrifically bad verbal working memory, but if I work strictly with images, I have an amazingly awesome working memory.

Also, I can do mental arithmetic fairly easily.

Not sure precisely what that means.

During my diagnosis, the psychologist administered the Wechsler Memory Scale (WMS-IV). My scores for Immediate Memory, Delayed Memory, Visual Memory and Auditory Memory were all below 25%.

Interestingly, my working memory with numbers (as measured by WAIS-IV Arithmetic sub-test) was quite good. It was my top sub-test score.

The Psychologist indicated that the testing exposed issues with complex memory processing and that I had low Executive Function for unstructured situations

I also took the WMS and all of the subtests on it with the exception of the two associative memory subtests were below 10%. My associative memory subtests were above the 90th percentile. To give some perspective that is borderline intellectual disability level on one hand and gifted on the other end. As I mentioned previously, my best scores on the WAIS were also oddly on the working memory Index, including arithmetic and digit span.

I don't know if Verdndi has taken the WMS, but I suspect based on her comments above that she would also be very low on the WMS scores. Verdandi can you comment on this If you have taken the WMS?

Last edited by Rascal77s on 12 Apr 2014, 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.