Page 1 of 1 [ 10 posts ] 

Jamesy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,411
Location: Near London United Kingdom

22 Apr 2014, 3:49 pm

Why would autistic people be at a disadvantage in societies that put high value on personal independence?



Dantac
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,672
Location: Florida

22 Apr 2014, 4:14 pm

No.

Disadvantage would be on societies that place high value on social performance.

..which is basically everywhere. Go figure. :P



ak_born
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 78
Location: Alaska

22 Apr 2014, 4:28 pm

I think it would depend on how personal independence is defined (physical mobility; ability to successfully navigate resources like job fairs, stores, or navigate office politics; self-sufficiency in isolation like a rural farm). If independence is the ability to survive outside of society, then it would seem that health issues associated with autism (co-morbid) could be a disadvantage due healthcare needs; but if independence is the ability to survive and compete inside society by making unique contributions to the system, then there could be huge disadvantages associated with the need for social interactions (networking, exchanging goods or data for money, interacting with a variety of personalities, differentiating between friend or foe, etc.).


_________________
Existence itself is at its roots a manifestation of information. - Wheeler


dianthus
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,138

22 Apr 2014, 5:35 pm

Because what society values as "personal independence" actually requires complex social negotiation. It's not really independence, it's the illusion of independence.



animalcrackers
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,207
Location: Somewhere

22 Apr 2014, 5:37 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Why would autistic people be at a disadvantage in societies that put high value on personal independence?


Some wouldn't be, and some would be. Autistic people vary in how independent we are.

Many autistic people rely on others for help to meet basic needs. For example:

Autistic people who cannot work (or cannot work enough hours/week or in competitive jobs that would give them enough money to live on) rely on others for financial assistance, or for things like food, shelter and clothing. Autistic people who can work may need help to find a job and get hired, and may also need ongoing help to keep their job.

Autistic people who have trouble with/cannot manage money may rely on others to either help them with those things (e.g. advice/guidance and reminders) or need someone else to do those things for them (a trustee).

Autistic people who cannot drive nor take transit independently may depend on others to get around. Even autistic people who are able to take pubic transit independently may be at a disadvantage -- for example, some jobs require you to be able to drive, and some places have very limited public transit service or none at all.

Autistic people who have trouble with/cannot manage all their daily life tasks independently rely on others to help them with those things -- the level of support varies a lot.

I think most/all autistic people need help at least sometimes to successfully navigate social things, and many of us need help to figure out how to communicate things or to understand others.

In a culture where personal independence is highly valued, there might be less help available to those who need it, and people may be reluctant to accomodate those who are different. Also, some people might look down on anybody who needs help or accomodations....That's my take on it anyways.


_________________
"Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving." -- Terry Pratchett, A Hat Full of Sky

Love transcends all.


KingdomOfRats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,833
Location: f'ton,manchester UK

22 Apr 2014, 6:32 pm

forget autism is involved, any group that is in the minority are disadvantaged as society isnt defaultly built for them or their needs, this is why minority groups get affirmative action; to put us on an equal footing with the majority groups.

Quote:
Some wouldn't be, and some would be. Autistic people vary in how independent we are.

exactly,theres a bottomless pit of functioning;everyone differs in independance.
the OP needs to remember they were quite recently worrying they woud be put in a carehome when their parents were to die[?], that means they cant be so confident about their own independance.


_________________
>severely autistic.
>>the residential autist; http://theresidentialautist.blogspot.co.uk
blogging from the view of an ex institutionalised autism/ID activist now in community care.
>>>help to keep bullying off our community,report it!


Jamesy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,411
Location: Near London United Kingdom

22 Apr 2014, 6:37 pm

KingdomOfRats wrote:
forget autism is involved, any group that is in the minority are disadvantaged as society isnt defaultly built for them or their needs, this is why minority groups get affirmative action; to put us on an equal footing with the majority groups.

Quote:
Some wouldn't be, and some would be. Autistic people vary in how independent we are.

exactly,theres a bottomless pit of functioning;everyone differs in independance.
the OP needs to remember they were quite recently worrying they woud be put in a carehome when their parents were to die[?], that means they cant be so confident about their own independance.


Put in a care home by the authorities or would I most likely be on the streets?



cannotthinkoff
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 324

22 Apr 2014, 6:38 pm

Dantac wrote:
No.

Disadvantage would be on societies that place high value on social performance.

..which is basically everywhere. Go figure. :P

I imagine some dystopian future where 99% people work in IT. Then we could talk some advantage :D



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

22 Apr 2014, 6:40 pm

Then our species, as we know it, would disappear. In order to continue our species, we have to procreate--which means, in our case, socialize.



1401b
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 May 2012
Age: 124
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,590

22 Apr 2014, 9:43 pm

How could a society actually value personal independence?
It's a society, the very definition of co-dependence.

The answer is: Society lies.


_________________
(14.01.b) cogito ergo sum confusus