difference between NT and autistic perseveration

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Many NTs perseverate on certain subjects and have the ability to hyper-focus. These traits are commonly seen in the engineering and scientific disciplines. I'm a software engineer, and an NT, and I can attest to this.

Why, then, is perseveration and hyper-focus so often seen as evidence of an ASD, when in reality, these traits just seem to be a useful personality characteristic - neither autistic or NT - just "human".

Are the types of obsessions that autistic people have fundamentally different than the types of obsessions that occupy the minds of certain NTs?

Honestly I don't know what the specific differences are... but I have noticed that a lot of engineers and scientists have aspie traits even if they don't have aspergers. (My hubby is a case in point.)

It is possible that having a few of these traits may prove beneficial especially in certain job areas, but at the same time if you have too many it may affect your ability to perform or how you interact with other people.

Have you tried the aspie quiz?
http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

BeautyWithin,

Yes, I've taken the Aspie quiz and I score about 90-100 in both my NT and Aspie scores, and it says that I'm both Aspie and Neuro-typical

The reason why I score high on the Aspie traits is because I have slight asocial tendencies (I'm a loner, prefer to do things on my own) and because of the previously mentioned perseverations. I do NOT have autism, however - I have no social impairments whatsoever, and I'm pretty sure you can't consider yourself autistic if you have great social skills, empathy, and the like.

I do not view perseverations as an autistic trait - at least the kind of perseverations that I and my collegues have. This are just personality traits, and present in many people, both NT and otherwise.

I do see a certain "type" or manifestation of these perseverative traits that I would consider autistic, though - the kind of obsessions that involve rote memorization of large tables of data or databases of facts about a certain subject. This kind of obsession is different, though, because it serves no useful purpose to anyone except the autistic, and doesn't seem to be motivated by the will to do some sort of good work surrounding the subject matter (but rather seems to come from a different motivation altogether that I can't quite understand). I wonder if this is the type of perseveration that is considered 'autistic'.

I'm not sure if this is just a different manifestation of the same underlying traits, however.

There is no difference. The idea is that "perserverating" in fields other than the social arena is something society, or at least American culture, discourages, so most people to have the ability to socialize generally do.

Maybe motivation is the key factor?
If you focus because you have a deadline or an examination coming up and you are expected to know that information then it's completely different than if you just get lost in a subject because you intrinsically want to know about it with no real outward goal in mind.

Square,


My NT husband is like Beauty's but he is NT (even though he is OCD, go figure). I'd say our main differences are not limited interests or even interests for their own sake (because he has some of this as well such as Russian studies and literature, landscaping) or routines (being OCD he has his own ingrained routines), but it is more of a reading of social subtexts and understanding faces and NT meanings that are just flat lost on me (if I even bother to notice the person at all which is unlikely). Basically, he can read people and I can't. He isn't prone to meltdowns or shut downs. He isn't bothered by lights, noise and movement to the extent that I am, although he doesn't like it if it messes with the order in "his space." He is much, much more social than I am. He reads the news (and even cares), he organizes his company's picnic and sports teams, etc. I'm extremely reclusive and hate socializing for the sake of socializing. I'm not emotive or expressive in the NT sense at all. If I feel something, it isn't all gushy words and sappy faces. He is very emotive and expressive, especially with me (although not very much with others). But, we're both tech heads who can sit around and discuss an abstract subject for hours just because we like it and we want a brain workout. We're both into museums, galleries, the theatre, the symphony and art house movies.

We're the same in some ways and in others we are very different.

Hmmm... could be.... Though I have to admit, some of my obsessions have nothing to do with external pressures. For eaxmple, I once had a bottle collecting obsession - I would mine 100 year old bottles out of a muddy creek side for hours on end. I was really interested in the bottles, researched them, knew their value, etc. It was an offshoot of my interest in colonial history, I suppose, and the opportunity to collect them (I stumbled across an old farm dump in the woods). In retro-spect, this obsession seems quite internally motivated.... and autistic, come to think of it

As far as software goes, there has been both internal and external motivations. I have, at times in my life, been fascinated with software for its own sake, and enjoyed learning about it. Once it became my career, the sheer desire to learn about software was at least partially replaced by my motivation to be GOOD at it - so I could advance in my career, earn more money, impress people, etc.

External motivation might be part of it, though I can't get over the bottle thing!

Preservation is a positive-human trait.

So a person (rather than a human) that has this trait is gifted. We could say that many aspies are gifted; but many neurotypicals are gifted too.

Right - ZanneMariie and dgd - I agree. There are other things that make you AS, but they aren't the obsessions. The obsessions are seen in both NTs and autistics. This is what I'm having trouble with - why obsessions are seen as an indicator of AS, when it seems to me, that the real indicator of AS is, as you've said, social impairment. Maybe, the giftedness is just a common trait that exists within the AS population? Perhaps, due to social isolation - the development of obsessional interests to compensate for lack of social stimulation? I don't know.

My girl's obsession is the movie "Monster House", by the way - and stuffed animals from the "Teddy Bear Factory" and the "Build-a-bear Workshop". I hope they outgrow the latter, eventually - it's costing me a fortune!

My son's obsessed with RollerCoasters. He doesn't have an ASD, though - he's a run-of-the-mill obsessive type, just like his dad.

Last edited by squaretail on 16 Feb 2007, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe (in aspies) it has to do with the intensity of obsession. But, what types of obsessions do neurotypicals normally have? For instance, Aspies have obsessions with objects; so do some neurotypicals.

I've had one obsession with Objects - the bottle thing. That only survived a few months, though - until I dug all of 'em out of the farm dump!

Other obsessions I have had include (chronological order), Dungeons and Dragons, Computer programming, Hiking, Fishing, colonial antiquities, Bottle Collecting, Running/Racing. Yes, you can become obsessed with things such as hiking and fishing I used to study maps, and knew the names of all the streams and tributaries, and would bushwalk for miles looking for the most secluded spot where I might find the elusive native brook trout! Not to mention all of the tackle...

All of these things are common NT obsessions (well, D&D and bottle collecting probably aren't - probably not colonial antiquities, either - gosh, maybe I am an Aspie (just kidding!)).

Perseveration is perseveration whether you're NT or Aspie...

Well remember, the symptom is not just that we have obsessions, but that we will do them to the exclusion of any other interest.


Perfect example. I will write for hours and days without eating, sleeping or stopping. I won't notice anything that needs to be done. I won't notice bills to be paid. I won't notice work. I won't notice anything. Basically, someone has to intervene and stop it. Almost like resetting me. Then, I'll be pissed because I don't want to stop. I'll probably have a big meltdown and get pissed off at dh and I might even run away. Finally, I'll come back and be what an NT would term "more balanced." Meaning, I'll eat if he puts the food in front of me. I'll go to bed if he tells me it's time. I'll go to work. And I won't have a meltdown until the next time I let my interest take over like that.

I have a few others as well and they can also get out of hand, but writing is the best one because I get so extreme.

That is vastly different than an NT obsession. Even my OCD husband never goes that far with his order and rules.

Squaretail: Autism is not a single diagnose, it's a full spectrum, with "mutism" (Autism with severe retardation and seemingly no will to communicate with the world) on one side, and perfect neurotypality (Total lack of autistic traits) on the other end.
I think that you are somewhere on the border between autism and neurotypality. You may qualify for an AS diagnose, or you may not, but either way you're getting along well in life, and dont have the reason to do so. (I doubt you've been to a psychiatrist and gotten a definitive negative)
But nevertheless I think you have it in the genes. That your twins have HFA speaks for that. Look around your family, do you have an aunt or cousin that everybody thought were strange or eccentric?

You can be on the spectrum on have both social skills and empathy. The usual culprit is that people on the spectrum many times can't intuitively relate to how other people think and feel. That can cause social impairment, and give an impression that we lack empathy. We usually care about other people, we sometimes just don't know how to relate to them. But that's something that can be learned to some degree, so yes you can definitely be autistic and have empathy.
Btw, I'm interested in knowing where you are on the Myers-Briggs scale. I'd guess INTP or INTJ, but please go ahead and do a test. (For example: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp)
If you want to know I'm an INTP, not surprising perhaps.

I'm an extreme INTJ, meaning my score is skewed almost completely to those letters. Some people scores are closer to the center so they are closer to being both or, to put it another way, they are more balanced.

Most of my NT friends who have perseverations, whether its dj'ing, cars, videogames, etc., and I think a lot of the difference in how people look at it is whether or not you really have the social skills or general mindset to not have it come to the forefront of who you are in people's minds. Those same friends are really into those things but they know when not to talk about it, some of em are also really into drinking, getting high, and social schmoozing almost as intensely - IMO combine that all with natural athletic ability and that's a great layer of insulation.