Questions and confusion

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Hey guys, I'm new here. I've been reading about Asperger's recently and I've started wondering whether or not I have it. I know that only a professional can diagnose me but I'd like to get your insight. This could get a bit long.

Honestly I'm a little confused by the disorder. I'm having trouble imagining what kinds of situations an aspie can have trouble with and how different they are from a neurotypical. For instance I've been shy and socially awkward for a long time now but I imagine there's a difference between the type of awkwardness experienced by an aspie and the kind experienced by a NT, I'm just not sure what it is. What do you guys have trouble with in social situations? I'd like to get a clearer picture in my head of the symptoms than just what I've read online. I understand that aspies have trouble with nonverbal cues for example, but can you give me an example of a situation where you'd experience a problem?

I also know that aspies can lack "theory of mind" but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that too and have no idea whether or not I lack it. What kind of trouble would a lack of TOM cause? Is it a problem understanding why people do the things they do, is it trouble sensing how people are thinking or feeling?

To give you a clearer picture of me, I had no problems making or keeping friends when I was younger, but I did have lots of OCD type traits, which apparently are also an Asperger's symptom (I don't anymore though, or only very mildly). I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder which I've heard is also common with Asperger's. I have a lot of trouble coping with stressful situations, but I hide that well in public. I was always very sensitive and get hurt very easily. I used to have some very passionate interests and often bored people by talking about them (however I realised that I was being annoying, I didn't do it unintentionally). I'm also very moody and easily snap at others when I'm annoyed. As I got older I became very shy and started having trouble making friends, although I found it pretty easy to talk to friendlier people who are more easy to talk to. But to this day I still have trouble keeping up conversations with new people and making small talk. There are also some social situations where I think "what am I supposed to do now?" but I can't remember any specific examples. Once I get comfortable with people though, I don't think I have any problems, so I have a feeling it's just social anxiety causing me to appear "weird" sometimes. Also I'm very introverted and don't really want to have many friends or hang out with a large group of people. I live with my boyfriend and am happy with just his company and some people I talk to online. Apart from that I prefer just "acquaintances" in real life that I can have a nice chat with but not close friendships.

Anyway, I guess what I'm asking is for some examples of difficulties aspies have so I can get a better picture of things, because right now I'm just confused and can't figure out if my traits are related to Asperger's or just being a shy, introverted person with an anxiety disorder. I've taken the online aspie quiz and it said I'm most likely neurotypical but I'm not so sure. Sorry if this post is a bit confusing, I can clear up anything I didn't explain well. I appreciate any answers.

Hi and Welcome to WP. I think one great thing for you to do would be to spend a lot of time reading through a lot of the threads. The reason is that your question is actually pretty broad and getting to know us through the various threads will give you tons of insight that can be much more specific and you can find many different challenges that we face as you look at the different threads. Then from there it will be easier to ask more specific questions that might be able to help you more. So I encourage you to look around for a bit and then you can see a lot of detailed issues that we have. It's good to have you here.

From what you posted, sounds like mild social anxiety + introversion in your case, but there aren't enough details.

Aspie social awkwardness stems largely from not actually knowing social rules, or (usually with older people), after years of social mistakes, only knowing the rules intellectually, being unable to follow them naturally, and expending large amounts of effort to socialize "normally," thus becoming exhausted and unable to keep up the act. There is also the problem of being unable to read other people's facial expressions and body language, leading to inappropriate actions.

For example:

Someone says, "how are you?" Hypothetical aspie doesn't know that this is a generic greeting and tells the person unwanted details about personal life instead of just answering "fine."

Hypothetical aspie wants to join a group of people at lunch. These people don't like hypothetical aspie and give nasty looks. Hypothetical aspie doesn't know what these looks mean and continues to sit down and chat with them.

Cute story that is an example of what an Aspie might not understand. My brother once told me that he was talking to someone at work and it was so frustrating that he said he was "pulling his hair out." I actually looked to see if I could see where some of his hair was missing and had to ask if he had really done that. Now I know that that is a common expression and I have even used it myself many times. But whenever someone says it as an expression and not literally, I have always noticed that it is accompanied by a giggle or by a slight upwards in pitch at the end of the sentence. And since I know people who do pull their hair out, like Clay Marzo who does that all the time as a stim I really thought my brother had really pulled his hair out too. Since my brother did neither the giggle nor the change of pitch when he told me I honestly could not tell if he was being literal or not. So I was not sure how to respond other than to ask him if he had literally pulled his hair out.

Another example. There is an online quiz that many of us have taken that shows you facial expressions but only of people's eyes. The only reason I scored as well as I did was because it was multiple choice and I choose answers that kind of made sense. Had it been fill in the blank, except for the super obvious ones, I would have just said the person is looking in this or that direction.

Another online test, the Queendom EQ test, asks you to identify what people are feeling by the looks on their faces. Again, unless it was super obvious like a big huge smile, I had no idea.

Thanks for the replies so far. I don't think I ever had trouble naturally following any social rules, or if I did I don't remember. Like I said there have been some situations where I've been unsure what to do but I'm sure that happens to everyone sometimes. Thanks for sharing those stories, skibum. I never actually heard the expression "pulling your hair out" much but I think if someone said it without a change in their tone of voice it might take a second for me to see that it's just an expression.

Any other thoughts?

LOL! Yeah, it can get funny sometimes. I won't mention whom this happened to with me because he would kill me if I did but I had forgotten something at someone's house once. I was still in the area so I called him and asked if I should come by and pick it up. Well he said, "no you can't" and I said, "why not?" and he said, "because I am picking up an old friend tonight so you can't come over." Now how I was supposed to deduce from that that picking up an old friend meant I am meeting an old girlfriend and I expect to get laid tonight so I don't want you hanging around to mess that up, I have no idea. Of course after ten minutes of all kinds of "hints" and me not getting it he had to put the dots real close together for me to understand. So I had to wait a couple of days to get my stuff back!

Reminds me of a conversation I had recently on another thread with 1401b (another member) about how some NT males view fancy sports cars! That was a hilarious example of how an Aspie can be clueless when it comes to NT social rituals!
Here's the link:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt258204.html

Hi ya and Welcome.

I have a bit of trouble instinctively integrating the Theory of Mind idea into my understanding too.

I guess it's basically seeing a person and knowing that they have a brain in their head and they're currently thinking about something.

The ToM concept is somewhat controversial. I'm very skeptical of the idea that it is a particularly autistic trait. As for what it is, I've read of it described as 1401b says, and I've also read descriptions of it as not realizing that other people don't have access to one's thoughts or can't know what they haven't been told or have experienced.

Here is a short video about ToM in children:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hLubgpY2_w

Since they suggest that ToM develops with maturity, and we know that ASDs involve delayed development, it seems to me that ToM in autistic people can be explained as a feature of a certain cognitive developmental delay, rather than as directly caused by autism. Furthermore, not every autistic person has the same developmental delays, and some non-autistic people have developmental delay as well, so that's further reason for my skepticism.

I think a good example of poor ToM in an aspie adult was a youtube video of a college student who admitted that it had never occurred to him that other people had emotions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAfWfsop1e0

Examples of poor Theory of Mind:

You are talking about a subject you like and are interested in and you think the person you are talking to likes the subject as much and is interested as much as you are and you do not consider that the person might find it boring.

You are buying a used car and the salesman is enthusiastic about it and you are listening to what he is saying and believing what he is saying because you like the car too and do not consider that he has different motives than you and you should be arguing and bargaining.
Instead you end up paying too much.

You think people are nice because they act nice and you trust people too much and you end up renting a room in your house to a psychopath.

Being gullible and naïve can be an indication that your ToM is not as well developed as it should be because you don't second guess people's motives or hidden agendas and believe they are thinking the way you are thinking.

It could also mean you are not able to manipulate people and are easily manipulated by others.

Marybird, Thank you for these examples because I never actually understood what TOM meant. But I can see by your examples that that describes me very well, that I have I guess poor or low theory of mind. Is that how to say it?

I guess I can't really relate to the lack of TOM examples then, or if I can it's a lot more subtle than the ones Marybird gave. I'm still not sure about how good my intuition about others is though. I read a thread on here once about someone who politely refused to give a popular and influential person some paper and later that person influenced their friend against them, so they lost a friend because they didn't realize that you don't refuse the "popular girl" anything. That sounds like something that would be harder for me to recognize instead of Marybird's examples. Has anything similar happened to any of you?

Another thing is thinking people know what is on your mind or how you are feeling without having to tell them.