Do Nts lie more than AS folks?

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I watched a movie called "Breaking Away" about a kid growing up. In this movie the father told his
son that everyone lies and cheats when they think they can get away with it. The kid accepts his
father's lesson and goes on to success.

I enjoyed this the way I enjoy most Morality Plays; I always like the
story when the good guy wins.

But, to admittedly naïve me, the astounding thing was the comment about lying.

Is this how average NTs socialize? Studies showing the astounding frequency
of lying are studies of NTs and always produce the same results.

What would a study of us AS folks discover I wonder?
Do we all find it necessary to hide behind lies?
Is it foolish to be honest?

If I judge by my own experience, yes (which doesn't mean that there isn't any autistic people who lie too, I don't know, I just know the ones I have known, and myself). That's why you never know whether they mean what they say, because there is all these "social games", and "social cues", that I simply cannot understand. While people on the autism spectrum tend to be more straightforward, naive, and honest (again speaking from my own experience, and myself). There is honest non-autistic people too tho, one of my (2) best friends was not autistic but she was still honest and a good person, its just that she understood the "social games" and "social cues" and was able to understand what people around her were doing or thinking, and so she knew when she should be honest and tell the truth, and when she shouldn't.

I also forgot to mention I got in trouble many times as a child (and even teenager) because I would just say what I thought, and sometimes it might have been insulting or seemed rude to others. So now I try to think about it before saying something, and if I think it might be insulting or hurt the person, I just don't say anything. I did tell "white lies" occasionally for this reason, for example once one of my ex sisters-in-law had her hair done for an anniversary, and she seemed to be very happy about her new hairstyle, but I thought it made her look like she was 60+ year old (she was only 20), so I didn't say anything, but then she asked me directly "have you noticed my new hairstyle" and "do you like it", and not to upset her I said something like "yes it looks nice".

But anyway, honesty is a quality that I appreciate very much in general.

Last edited by Shadi2 on 13 Jun 2014, 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lying is a people thing not an NT or Autistic thing. Some NTs lie a lot others don't. Some Spectrum people lie a lot and others don't. There are people on the Spectrum who can't lie or have a hard time lying but that is not everyone. And some NTs find it very difficult to lie as well. There are plenty of people on the Spectrum who lie including myself. I have lied before and I won't pretend I don't. And we have had a similar thread where this was asked and several WP members said that they have lied before and still do as well. So that is really just a human thing that is really based on the individual whether on the Spectrum or not.

I'm AS but I lie. I'm not a compulsive liar, but I know I'm good with telling white lies when needed. The way I see it, there's lying and there's lying. I've met a few people in my life who lie about everything and for no apparent reason, as though they enjoy making up all these stories and sometimes I'm sure they believe their own stories. And some NTs are more honest than others, but I'd say I'm average. I even remember lying from a young age, like when I was 5 I was told not to climb a tree at the back of a relative's garden, in case I fell and hurt myself. But while I was left unsupervised for 5 minutes, I did have a sneaky climb up the tree, and it wasn't so bad. Then I quickly climbed back down and quickly sat back on the lawn and played with some toys before the adults came back out again, and when my mum asked if I climbed the tree at all while they were gone, I said no. And there were other times I remember as a young child when I could decide whether to lie or say the truth, and usually I got away with a lot of this. And no, I wasn't ''taught'' to lie by anyone, my mum is actually quite an honest sort of person. I've just always been able to lie when needed.

Sometimes I lie, sometimes I don't. Depends with who I am talking to. If I am talking with my friend by the Internet, I like to lie and tell everything opposite about things he says. Usually it ends up with funny chat, full of nonsense. But when I am lying to someone about some fact, I feel bad and I have to fix it, so I don't lie if it is about some facts.

I'm not totally certain at this point whether I have AS, but when I was younger I went through a period where I would lie constantly about myself, simply because it was too painful to reveal certain realities -- like things I hadn't done in life, for instance. It was never planned, they just sort of popped out during discussions.

It always made me feel bad, so I stopped doing it. As you get older, you tend to care less about what people think of you.

I rarely lie. Not even polite white lies - I usually either give my honest opinion or refuse to answer.

According to Uta Frith's experiments with children, NT children do lie more.

I could lie to save my life or to not get in trouble but I do my best to avoid such situations.

I am incapable of lying to manipulate because I don't relate to people that way.
I'm pretty straight forward when I say things and sometimes say the wrong thing without intending to.

I'm more likely to say something nice that may be interpreted as flattery when that is not my intention.
For instance, if I say "I like your shirt" or "I like your car", I am not trying to flatter you, or make you feel good, or befriend you or for any other ulterior motive.
I said it simply because I really like the shirt or the car. You could be my worst enemy and I would still say it.

I have said things that have offended people when that was not my intention, I didn't intend it to be taken personally.

That's probably the best thing to do, I also usually don't say anything. Myself I did this (white lie) occasionally (very rarely) because I could see she seemed very happy about her hairstyle and it would have upset her, when it was only a few minutes before the anniversary party. If I had refused to answer the effect would have been the same as if I had told her the truth (her getting upset), which was the reason I "white lied" to begin with.

But if she had been honestly asking me about this and it hadn't been at such a bad moment, I would have told her my honest opinion, that it made her look like she was 60+ years old.

Something similar happened at another time too, it was with a couple who were our friends (my husband and I) and they visited us, and the woman had a big fur coat, but I don't like fur coats, especially when its just for appearances (i.e. it is not actually needed), because animals get killed for these "beautiful fur coats", but she was very happy about it, she liked fur coats and it was a gift from her husband, but I didn't say anything at all, then my dear husband had to say something like "don't you like her coat, it looks really nice", all this right in front of them, and with the woman with a big smile ... so again I "white lied", I hate doing this, but I assumed if I started an argument about fur coats everyone would get upset so I just decided to shut up about it and just say "yes the coat is nice" ... sigh.

This is probably the most accurate answer you'll get, as it's backed up by research. Uta Frith's name carries weight, so I'm not going to do an accuracy check (I cbf).

As for autistic adults, I personally have no idea. My friend whom has classic autism lies with a frequency I wouldn't consider vastly out of the norm (mostly exaggerations of achievments etc). I'd probably agree with the posters that say it's more of a human thing, at least as age progresses, rather than an autistic thing. At least I would expect that to be true of the higher functioning.

The following is only a guess:

I think it is most likely that NTs learn the value of honesty and such as they grow older, while people with AS learn to lie (causing a balance). Lying is not always bad, depending on perspective of course.

Yeah, I agree. I know it took me a very long time to learn how to lie, or just to be willing to do it, until my late teens or early 20's even. Before that I tended to just automatically be honest, without even thinking about it really, even when it was to my own detriment. I also had to learn how to evade answering questions because I would tend to answer honestly to just about any question someone asked me. Even in my mid 20's people were commenting on it, saying things like, "You don't have to tell everyone EVERYTHING" and that finally kind of snapped me out of it.

I'm not lying when I say I like pink dianthuses

I wish mine would grow better, though!

Seriously: The rules of society dictate that we must produce "white lies" so as not to offend people. It's kind of a ritual. Like many things, it is borne out of the need for our species to survive--if we were constantly at war with each other, we wouldn't survive as a species.

I believe ASD's kids "learn" to lie later than NT kids.

I have 1 nt child and 1 as child and imo nt kids do lie more. Usually if my son is playing upstairs with a friend and the friend comes down and says my sons done something he shouldn't my son we come right down and verify it even if he get into trouble. An nt child of the same age ime would deny it or even blame the friend if they could get away with it.

Is this the study you're referring to?

http://www.icn.ucl.ac.uk/dev_group/ufrith/documents/Sodian%20and%20Frith,%20Deception%20and%20sabotage%20in%20autistic,%20retarded%20and%20normal%20children%20copy.pdf

I think honesty or maybe just lack of BS is a trait of autism. I remember from the beginning when i started forums that whatever opinion I gave people would be straight forward and honest, because I really don't know how to make things up. And it something I've become well known for from my peers on the internet.