Society / Religion and Autism / Technology Revolution

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Adamantus
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29 May 2015, 11:23 am

Is anyone else having real problems with society at the moment? I'm having the following problems

1) It's like people are trying to find ways to kill me (like they see me as the cause of society's ills)

2) People are constantly trashing religion which is my main means of hapiness and survival and see it as a problem rather than the wonderful thing it should be. People think that science is a replacement for relgion but science is not a replacement for a spiritual practice and is mainly about building things. I tried to explore science but it brought me no hapiness and it just wasn't right for me.

3) There was an internet revolution which in the end went bad. I feel like I tried to fight for things that were most moral and truthful and what others told me was right. But I think that I got manipulated and used by others and had no idea what hapenned. I try to appologize for my part but I was really robbed of what I needed (religious freedom) and told to follow something that didn't serve me at all (science). It was a sort of push pull but they nearly killed me tbh.

4) The public are ignorant of Autism. They think we are up to something, believe we posess capabilities that we do not, misunderstand us at every opportunity and use their faulty understandings of us a draw incorrect conclusions. They then attack us until we are at deaths door. We have to try to fit in in order to survive, perhaps we are too good at it. They see us as normal and therefore try to kill us. I don't really understand much and have to be able to earn money, achieve basic life skills but people are preventing me from being able to do that.

5) I see spiritual attainment as the solution to societies ills. I would be Christian in any other society but now there is new information to draw on. I want to explore Buddhism and meditation. I get the sense that people think that somehow this was all about power and that since the old power has failed I try something else but this is not the case. This was all about truth and I have to try to make sense of the world I live in. This makes being a relgious person in this time extremely difficult. On one hand Christianity is well established but then there are other opportunities as well and it makes life very difficult. There is no simple truthful structure to follow for a quiet simple life.

6) In the UK there is a fierce destruction of benefits and services. This affects us most of all and forces us to regress back to old and established means of survival (however that works).

With all of these things I sort of have to figure all of these things out for myself and there doesn't seem to be anyone there to help. I feel totally alone but I know that I am not alone.

Everyone is different so I suppose this will affect some people more than others but things are really bad at the moment. This was a general rant but I just need to know that I am not alone in suffering these things atm. :( :?



Last edited by Adamantus on 29 May 2015, 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

AspieUtah
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29 May 2015, 11:32 am

I agree completely. :D

Adamantus wrote:
...In the UK there is a fierce destruction of benefits and services. This affects us most of all and forces us to regress back to old and established means of survival (however that works)....

To paraphrase George Santayana, those governments and their benefactors who cannot remember the French Revolution past are condemned to repeat it. I hold two conflicting opinions: That those who earn their wealth are free to keep it, and that those who keep it while others are oppressed or worse might re-experience the historic backlashes that such kept wealth engenders. It might take Darwinism to decide.


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Adamantus
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29 May 2015, 11:47 am

Why have I been away from this place for so long? This place is good.



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29 May 2015, 11:47 am

You are not alone. Although some of what you say - people wanting to kill you or rob you of your religious freedom -relates to your personal situation, in general I completely agree with you. Your point about society's ignorance of autism is correct, as is what you say about spiritual attainment (if you are interested in inner prayer you might look at the Orthodox Church, which has a long tradition of prayer of the heart). And yes, for all its benefits the internet has become a savage, selfish place.

Like you I live in the UK, so I am also witnessing the ideological destruction of the welfare state and any sense of solidarity. The present government's aim seems to be to turn people against each other.



jimmyboy76453
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29 May 2015, 12:28 pm

Ignorance of autism, yes, totally. Willful ignorance.

Also, I have noticed the increase in the vocally negative view of religion, especially in favor of science. Now, I have no problem with science. I enjoy much of it. But it does bother me when people try to make themselves out to be so freaking smart because they have thrown out the idiotic (their words) idea of any sort of spiritual or religious existence and instead embraced science, which then becomes their new religion. If they were true scientists, they would respect that someone else holds an undisprovable theory (religion) to be true, even if they themselves don't, by the very fact that it has not been disproven. If a theory has not been disproven than, scientifically, it must be accepted as possible.

I'm reasonably intelligent, and I'm also reasonably spiritual. I see no conflict between science and spirituality (I do make a difference between spirituality and religion, but for the purpose of this discussion, I don't think the difference is relevant and explaining it would take up a lot of space. Just assume that spirituality covers all religions in general). Deep spirituality is heavily integrated into science, nature and the fabric of the universe. When you get really, really, deep into science, spirituality becomes a necessary component of the discussion. Look at quantum mechanics. Look at astronomy. Look at anything that deals with the concepts of existence, the origination of matter, the definition of 'life' and 'consciousness,' or the building blocks of everything everywhere. Until not long ago, many branches of science that are now considered legitimate were considered to be metaphysical pseudo-science, including every branch that contains the word 'quantum.' Anyone who studied these disciplines was mocked, until some the theories were mathematically proven and the disciplines had to be moved from the land of nutjobs into the land of serious science.

I once tried to explain to another reasonably intelligent person (because he asked) why an intelligent person can still believe in religion (any religion). I tried to explain that there are different types of learning. I explained that book knowledge, such as math, history, theoretical concepts, etc. is learned with the brain, and that is the type of learning he is used to, so he's trying to do everything with it. But that's not possible.

Physical movements, like dribbling a basketball, riding a bike or running a marathon, are learned with the body. You can learn the book knowledge of the movement, the mechanics of it, with the brain, but you can't fully understand the action without performing it and learning it with the body. This is how athletes learn, and this is why they train so much. They are teaching their bodies to perfect the movements. This is why you can't read a book to learn how to swim; you have to get in the water. You cannot fully understand how to swim until your body has experienced it. Can we agree there is such a thing as physical learning, and that it is learned in the body rather than the brain? I think so.

There is also learning that is done with the heart, such as love, kindness and friendship. We learn not only HOW to love but also what love feels like, why so many of us need it, and what purpose it serves, with the heart, not the brain. We learn WHY to be kind, and why and how to be a friend to someone. Again, you can study the concepts in a book, but until you experience love, you cannot fully understand it. We also learn loneliness, depression, joy, happiness and anger, none of which make any logical sense, but all of which exist in very real degrees. These are all learned with the heart.

Spirituality, likewise, cannot be learned with the brain, just like love or swimming cannot be understood with the brain. You learn and understand spirituality with the soul. I can't prove that God exists, but I know it because I have experienced it. To someone who hasn't, this makes no sense. To someone who is trying to use only their brain to understand spirituality, it is illogical. But it exists. I can't prove it to someone else, but it has been proven to me.


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29 May 2015, 2:32 pm

If any of the religion complaints you hear are coming from Americans, we have a lot of religious problems over here. I was homeschooled and spent several years reading textbooks about how God created the world a few thousand years ago, evolution was a hoax, and the fossil record was explained by the flood of Noah.

We also have religious groups claiming that it's impossible for humans to change God's Earth, so climate change must not be real. And that homosexuality is the curse of God and doesn't occur in nature.

All of these religious beliefs are quite disprovable, but people keep believing them anyway. That's why atheists have so little respect for religion. Sure, the existence of God can't be disproven, but a lot of other claims can.

I realize there are some religious people who don't agree with these claims, or with religious misogyny, sexual repression, terrorism, etc.. But after seeing religious *groups* consistently follow these beliefs, I'm starting to suspect they are an inherent part of religion.

Think about what happens when you say, for example, 'I believe the Bible'. Then someone else, perhaps an autist, reads the Bible and its advocation of conquest and genocide, endorsements of slavery, condemnation of homosexuals, and dismissal of women. They'll interpret that as you believing what the Bible says. A lot of people grow up in churches, are told their whole life that 'good people read the Bible and do what it says', and then...some of them read the Bible and do what it says. That's what's behind the rise of Christian fundamentalism in the US. A generation or two ago, well-intentioned Christians said 'you should believe the Bible', by which they meant 'there are some good things in there, as long as you look at them carefully and think critically'. But their children only heard 'believe the Bible', so that's exactly what they do.

Every large religious group has this problem. Even Buddhists...yeah, I was surprised too (http://politicalviolenceataglance.org/2 ... sri-lanka/).



Adamantus
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29 May 2015, 3:33 pm

I get the sense when I listen to scientists talk that they have read passages of the bible and looked through a telescope and found them incorrect. I don't think many modern day Christians would believe that the earth was created in a few thousand years. They also seem to think that religion is wrong because it causes all kinds of problems such as witchcraft and war. But you could apply the same logic to science. Religious people are not going about believing in witchcraft just as scientists are not doing human zoos anymore (racism). Personally I feel that I come from a Christian psyche and upbringing but I'm also very interested in Buddhism and do a lot of meditation. It's just very hurtful when you hear all these people telling you god doesn't exist just because it's a societal fashion trend atm.



Densaugeo
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29 May 2015, 9:30 pm

Adamantus wrote:
I don't think many modern day Christians would believe that the earth was created in a few thousand years


A lot of them do http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/belie ... igins.aspx

Adamantus wrote:
Religious people are not going about believing in witchcraft


A lot of them do that too http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 81391.html

Adamantus wrote:
It's just very hurtful when you hear all these people telling you god doesn't exist just because it's a societal fashion trend atm.


I realize that, but it's also hurtful to tell children who stim too much that they are demon-possessed, or will go to hell for being gay, or stop them from having friends their age because 'the world could corrupt them'.

How can you have the good parts of religion without the bad? Once you start accepting ideas on faith, how do you tell someone that their faith in creationism, or witchcraft, or demon possession is incorrect? And even if you do manage this feat, what do you do about the *majority* of religious people who believe such things?



Adamantus
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30 May 2015, 3:21 pm

How can you have science without the bad bits of science like human zoos? People learn from the past and available information, it has nothing to do with one approach being superior.



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31 May 2015, 12:10 pm

Adamantus wrote:
I get the sense when I listen to scientists talk that they have read passages of the bible and looked through a telescope and found them incorrect. I don't think many modern day Christians would believe that the earth was created in a few thousand years. They also seem to think that religion is wrong because it causes all kinds of problems such as witchcraft and war. But you could apply the same logic to science. Religious people are not going about believing in witchcraft just as scientists are not doing human zoos anymore (racism). Personally I feel that I come from a Christian psyche and upbringing but I'm also very interested in Buddhism and do a lot of meditation. It's just very hurtful when you hear all these people telling you god doesn't exist just because it's a societal fashion trend atm.

My parents literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and that Noah's ark is a historical account and actually happened. That kind of ignorance isn't isolated to these two beliefs and in fact permiates every area of their lives.

It makes reasoning with them all but impossible. It has made my childhood and much of my life hell having parents that are this brain dead. It has taken over a decade to recover from the lifetime of indoctrinated bs that I have been fed my whole life, and still parts of my mind have yet to recover.



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31 May 2015, 12:16 pm

Noca wrote:
Adamantus wrote:
I get the sense when I listen to scientists talk that they have read passages of the bible and looked through a telescope and found them incorrect. I don't think many modern day Christians would believe that the earth was created in a few thousand years. They also seem to think that religion is wrong because it causes all kinds of problems such as witchcraft and war. But you could apply the same logic to science. Religious people are not going about believing in witchcraft just as scientists are not doing human zoos anymore (racism). Personally I feel that I come from a Christian psyche and upbringing but I'm also very interested in Buddhism and do a lot of meditation. It's just very hurtful when you hear all these people telling you god doesn't exist just because it's a societal fashion trend atm.

My parents literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and that Noah's ark is a historical account and actually happened. That kind of ignorance isn't isolated to these two beliefs and in fact permiates every area of their lives.

It makes reasoning with them all but impossible. It has made my childhood and much of my life hell having parents that are this brain dead. It has taken over a decade to recover from the lifetime of indoctrinated bs that I have been fed my whole life, and still parts of my mind have yet to recover.

Apart from the true age of Earth, can anyone disprove your parents' beliefs? Even if Earth is demonstrably older than 6,000 years, what harm does it do you when your parents' harbor these beliefs? Consider it in the same category of morbidly obese individuals who believe that they are healthy. Smile and let them continue believing it. It does you no harm and it makes their lives better.


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Adamantus
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31 May 2015, 4:47 pm

Noca wrote:
My parents literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and that Noah's ark is a historical account and actually happened. That kind of ignorance isn't isolated to these two beliefs and in fact permiates every area of their lives.


I suppose if they were scientists or atheists then they would just have become attached to some other ideas later proven false, I think it's more about the people really.

Science basically missed me. I was very interested in it as a full blown life system until around 15-16. There was so much pain and problems and I had to turn to spirituality as a solution. For some reason I felt that I couldn't go back to Christianity and I had to find something else like enlightenment to make the pain stop (as I thought then). I tried various things which only made the pain worse until I tried simple Vipassanā meditation (also called Mindfulness practice) which is incredible and there's no end to.

I didn't find out about Autism until only a few years ago.



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31 May 2015, 5:46 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Noca wrote:
Adamantus wrote:
I get the sense when I listen to scientists talk that they have read passages of the bible and looked through a telescope and found them incorrect. I don't think many modern day Christians would believe that the earth was created in a few thousand years. They also seem to think that religion is wrong because it causes all kinds of problems such as witchcraft and war. But you could apply the same logic to science. Religious people are not going about believing in witchcraft just as scientists are not doing human zoos anymore (racism). Personally I feel that I come from a Christian psyche and upbringing but I'm also very interested in Buddhism and do a lot of meditation. It's just very hurtful when you hear all these people telling you god doesn't exist just because it's a societal fashion trend atm.

My parents literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and that Noah's ark is a historical account and actually happened. That kind of ignorance isn't isolated to these two beliefs and in fact permiates every area of their lives.

It makes reasoning with them all but impossible. It has made my childhood and much of my life hell having parents that are this brain dead. It has taken over a decade to recover from the lifetime of indoctrinated bs that I have been fed my whole life, and still parts of my mind have yet to recover.

Apart from the true age of Earth, can anyone disprove your parents' beliefs? Even if Earth is demonstrably older than 6,000 years, what harm does it do you when your parents' harbor these beliefs? Consider it in the same category of morbidly obese individuals who believe that they are healthy. Smile and let them continue believing it. It does you no harm and it makes their lives better.


GOSH!

You just slit your own throat with THAT analogy!

If a person who is morbidly obese BELIEVES THAT THEY ARE HEALTHY then that is NOT a harmless delusion to that person. That is a LETHAL delusion because if they dont do something about it they will die.



AspieUtah
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31 May 2015, 6:29 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Noca wrote:
Adamantus wrote:
I get the sense when I listen to scientists talk that they have read passages of the bible and looked through a telescope and found them incorrect. I don't think many modern day Christians would believe that the earth was created in a few thousand years. They also seem to think that religion is wrong because it causes all kinds of problems such as witchcraft and war. But you could apply the same logic to science. Religious people are not going about believing in witchcraft just as scientists are not doing human zoos anymore (racism). Personally I feel that I come from a Christian psyche and upbringing but I'm also very interested in Buddhism and do a lot of meditation. It's just very hurtful when you hear all these people telling you god doesn't exist just because it's a societal fashion trend atm.

My parents literally believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and that Noah's ark is a historical account and actually happened. That kind of ignorance isn't isolated to these two beliefs and in fact permiates every area of their lives.

It makes reasoning with them all but impossible. It has made my childhood and much of my life hell having parents that are this brain dead. It has taken over a decade to recover from the lifetime of indoctrinated bs that I have been fed my whole life, and still parts of my mind have yet to recover.

Apart from the true age of Earth, can anyone disprove your parents' beliefs? Even if Earth is demonstrably older than 6,000 years, what harm does it do you when your parents' harbor these beliefs? Consider it in the same category of morbidly obese individuals who believe that they are healthy. Smile and let them continue believing it. It does you no harm and it makes their lives better.

GOSH!

You just slit your own throat with THAT analogy!

If a person who is morbidly obese BELIEVES THAT THEY ARE HEALTHY then that is NOT a harmless delusion to that person. That is a LETHAL delusion because if they dont do something about it they will die.

Unless we support the idea of some individuals owning other individuals legally, exactly how should I coerce or force another individual to do with their life what I, and I alone, believe they should do? I can humor or even nudge the other individual, but I can't force. If I go too far, I lose my relationship with the other individual entirely. So, I am happy to make one mild suggestion and leave it at that. If the other individual replies with "I am okay exactly as I am," that is enough for me. Forcing others for any reason isn't what I am good at doing.


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Adamantus
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01 Jun 2015, 7:57 am

Can we try to stay on topic here please? I was really just asking if anyone here is having problems in the relation to the state, and with internet development and it's relationship to their religious beliefs.