Why do many NTs over-simplify so much?
One of the biggest differences between me and the vast majority of people I've talked to in my life is that it seems to me that they will get really set on one idea being "the answer", and apply it to literally everything. I don't know how many times I've heard variations of, "You can do whatever you want if you set your mind to it." That is probably the most common idea that NTs seem to have. It is totally untrue, if people just thought about it they would realize that's not true.
I've heard so much of that kind of stuff, and I just don't understand it. Do they not realize that problem-solving involves more than just plugging variables into a random equation if it looks like the right one?
Why do they do this? What about being an NT means that they don't think about things? I can get them to agree with me, out of context, that I am right, that many times trying harder is not going to fix anything. You can try to uproot an oak tree by pushing it with your bare hands, and it doesn't matter if you set your mind to it, and try harder. That is just not going to happen. You have to find a solution that fits the problem. But then when it comes down to something real, they go right back to their ridiculous assumption that everything is simple and easy for everyone.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
I've heard so much of that kind of stuff, and I just don't understand it. Do they not realize that problem-solving involves more than just plugging variables into a random equation if it looks like the right one?
Why do they do this? What about being an NT means that they don't think about things? I can get them to agree with me, out of context, that I am right, that many times trying harder is not going to fix anything. You can try to uproot an oak tree by pushing it with your bare hands, and it doesn't matter if you set your mind to it, and try harder. That is just not going to happen. You have to find a solution that fits the problem. But then when it comes down to something real, they go right back to their ridiculous assumption that everything is simple and easy for everyone.
You can say all of this and more. When thought through the statement "You can do anything you set your mind to" can be falsified easily. It comes from this positivity and self-help BS.
Please read more on Winston Wu has to say this. http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Attitude_Fanatics.htm
I've heard so much of that kind of stuff, and I just don't understand it. Do they not realize that problem-solving involves more than just plugging variables into a random equation if it looks like the right one?
Why do they do this? What about being an NT means that they don't think about things? I can get them to agree with me, out of context, that I am right, that many times trying harder is not going to fix anything. You can try to uproot an oak tree by pushing it with your bare hands, and it doesn't matter if you set your mind to it, and try harder. That is just not going to happen. You have to find a solution that fits the problem. But then when it comes down to something real, they go right back to their ridiculous assumption that everything is simple and easy for everyone.
Its a question of heuristics. NT's, like myself, will tend to create short cuts or simple rules to help us navigate through life. These rules are based on past experience and are "short cuts" or rough and ready rules that seem to work but are not completely validated. These are useful when navigating particularly complicated and dynamic situations with many unknown variables. For example heuristic short cuts are used in social situations because the information we need to act on is never complete and never fully validated. If we took the time, even if possible, to ponder each and every ramification then paralysis and indecision would ensue. So we "cheat" with basic, rough and ready rules that do the job well enough most of the time.
With regards to the specific example of "you can do anything if you set you mind to it" it is a heuristic that if adhered to will yield better results than if you don't. Obviously this won;'t be the case for pushing over trees but when used to motivate yourself to start an essay or a work task that seems daunting it is better to start in the belief that one rather than not start due to the paralysing fear of failure. This is not logical thinking but it is how most NT's operate.
Where, perhaps, autistic people differ is that they see through the faulty logic of heuristic thinking. This can be a very good thing because heuristics can prevent innovation, NT's will get caught up in the way of doing things and then can't see a better way because "thats the way its always been done". It takes an autie to come along, analyse in depth what NT's can't be arsed to and then show them a better, improved way of doing the thing. The down side, is of course, that many heuristic are really handy for navigating quickly through lifes decisions and autistic people many become paralysed into inaction by thinking to much!
androbot01
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Phrases like you have mentioned are not used to express any actual meaning, but are rather a gesture of support. The person is trying to be positive, but has nothing specific to offer. Sometimes this can be annoying but there is no point to contradiction. Just accept it for what it's worth.
Aspies do it too
True.
Sometimes, people are in the mood for simplicity. They do not want to think long and hard on something... they just want answers. On other days, they care more about the thought process itself then they do about the outcome. It all depends on the person and their mood at the time. Some people are very logical, very structured and scientific in their approach. Others more philosophical. There's different types of NT's and different types of Asperger's. That has been my personal experience.
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Often misunderstood, and at the same time forever trying to understand others
Yeah, that one is annoying. Like Cubedemon said, it's down to self-help BS and positive reinforcement crap. It is a very damaging outlook for anyone who for whatever reason can?t.
Another thing I hate is when they say that something will be fine when they have no way of knowing, or that something will likely never happen. I know that to them apparently it?s calming. To me it?s just stressing and makes me feel like I?m not being heard. I need contingency plans to feel safe.
I think it?s about having default settings and automatic responses.
In all fairness, I am aware of having them too. I too can agree with something out of context and then go back to my default setting in a real situation. I think it?s a very human thing, not an NT thing.
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btbnnyr
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evilreligion eggsplains things well about the you do anything if you set your mind to it.
Of course the literal statement is not true, you can't do anything if you set your mind to it.
But you apply the idea regularly in your life whether on small tasks or big projects, it will help you do things and get greater outcomes than if you generally believe that you can't do things even if you set your mind to it.
I am not NT, and I believe that I can generally do what I want to do if I set my mind to it, and indeed this is generally true, because it became a self-fulfilling prophecy that I believed this, wanted to do something, set my mind to it, worked hard and creatively, then was able to do it and get results, even if not 100% what I eggspected or how I eggspected.
Also, the thing about trying harder: trying harder usually doesn't work if you do the same thing with more effort in ways that don't work for you, but it would work bester if you tried many different things with high effort and discovered one that worked.
This kind of thing occurs all the time in science research, that some ways of doing things are deadends, and you can't get results from trying harder in those ways, so you need to come up with new ways that might work instead.
And I also think that simplifying is not just an NT thing, but autistic people do it too, sometimes on WP by fitting eberrything in an autism model.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
I've heard so much of that kind of stuff, and I just don't understand it. Do they not realize that problem-solving involves more than just plugging variables into a random equation if it looks like the right one?
Why do they do this? What about being an NT means that they don't think about things? I can get them to agree with me, out of context, that I am right, that many times trying harder is not going to fix anything. You can try to uproot an oak tree by pushing it with your bare hands, and it doesn't matter if you set your mind to it, and try harder. That is just not going to happen. You have to find a solution that fits the problem. But then when it comes down to something real, they go right back to their ridiculous assumption that everything is simple and easy for everyone.
Its a question of heuristics. NT's, like myself, will tend to create short cuts or simple rules to help us navigate through life. These rules are based on past experience and are "short cuts" or rough and ready rules that seem to work but are not completely validated. These are useful when navigating particularly complicated and dynamic situations with many unknown variables. For example heuristic short cuts are used in social situations because the information we need to act on is never complete and never fully validated. If we took the time, even if possible, to ponder each and every ramification then paralysis and indecision would ensue. So we "cheat" with basic, rough and ready rules that do the job well enough most of the time.
With regards to the specific example of "you can do anything if you set you mind to it" it is a heuristic that if adhered to will yield better results than if you don't. Obviously this won;'t be the case for pushing over trees but when used to motivate yourself to start an essay or a work task that seems daunting it is better to start in the belief that one rather than not start due to the paralysing fear of failure. This is not logical thinking but it is how most NT's operate.
Where, perhaps, autistic people differ is that they see through the faulty logic of heuristic thinking. This can be a very good thing because heuristics can prevent innovation, NT's will get caught up in the way of doing things and then can't see a better way because "thats the way its always been done". It takes an autie to come along, analyse in depth what NT's can't be arsed to and then show them a better, improved way of doing the thing. The down side, is of course, that many heuristic are really handy for navigating quickly through lifes decisions and autistic people many become paralysed into inaction by thinking to much!
EvilReligion, you don't realize it but I think you have helped me to understand the final component of myself and why I have so many issues with functioning. I am superb in logical thinking but at a severe cost. I have severe problems with heuristics based processing and thinking. You describe me to a tee. I end up over-thinking to a point in which I do become paralyzed into action by thinking to much. I literally end up thinking myself to dysfunction. I wish there was an effective treatment that could help me to develop an artificial limb so I could do the heuristics based processing and thinking.
Aspies do it too
Yes, I never said they didn't. I was saying NTs do it more and I don't really understand it, especially when a more logical solution is presented and they don't even consider it. I've noticed many people do it, and it irritates me so much because I've never done it to that extent.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
The real reason it irritates me so much now, is because in the past if I tried to ask for help or advice on a problem I was having, this is the kind of crap I got. "Just keep trying, it'll work out." No, I knew something had to change. But this is what I got from literally everybody, not a single person responded differently. Parents, siblings, teachers, peers. And it was very damaging to me, because I started to think that I was defective. It was obviously very easy for them, but not me, and I didn't know why.
Now I know I was right to begin with, and I shouldn't have let them change my view of myself. So I get very angry when people give me that "advice", because to me it just feels like they aren't listening and that they don't care.
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"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
btbnnyr
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How were they wrong when they said keep trying?
I found that usually when I have a problem, I need to keep trying in order to solve it, otherwise it doesn't get solved.
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Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
I found that usually when I have a problem, I need to keep trying in order to solve it, otherwise it doesn't get solved.
Sorry, that's not exactly what they said usually. sometimes they did, but it was when I was proposing that there was a legitimate problem that needed to be addressed directly, and then they just say, "try harder." to me that seems that they are implying I'm just being lazy.
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"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
btbnnyr
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This makes me happy!
Glad I could help, even though it was, as you say, a bit by accident!