Willful Ignorance

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With aspies and NTs. I forget sometimes that people just really, really, really, don't want to change their minds, even though all the facts are cut up into bitesize pieces for them, and spoonfed to them. People and their stupid egos. ALL OF THEM.

*Bashes head against the wall, several times*

TL:DR: Look at the puppy! Look at the silly little puppy!! It's wearing SUNSHADES, OMG!! !! !! !

That puppy rocks!

I think the central issue is that many people get attached to points of view for emotional reasons, often because it represents their own life experience, and they refuse to consider challenges to an idea that they have formed a meaningful attachment to; if someone else challenges it on logical or intellectual grounds, the response is often personal attack.... Alternatively, sometimes people just overlook that their own experience is not typical of everyone else. The first is more common than the second. These situations apply to both NTs and ASDs, though I tend to observe that ASD's will argue the hind leg off a donkey to defend a point of view a bit more and a lot longer than NTs do, whatever the objective evidence sometimes. For some people, being faced with disagreement on an issue, they feel you are attacking some part of their identity. You see this a lot on PPR.

Possibly, also, attachment to one's subjective view of "the truth" is more developed on the spectrum?

I understand why it happens, and I totally agree with what you said about emotional attachment...well, everything really. I also agree that AS individuals tend to be particularly rigid, myself included admittedly. At the same time though, I try more than anything *not* to be this way, because I hate it in other people.

Anything other than, "Yes, I agree" is seen as an attack to peoples' identity, yes.

I see this massive iron wall that people put up, as a massive flaw in the human race. It should be blown up in every individual, and critical thinking force-fed to them all...remembering to make people question THEMSELVES objectively too.

*Screams*




..






.....Yes, it is a rather cute puppy.

A common reason is emotional attachment to their opinion. Another reason can be that they don't actually care what's the trutch, but it would be socially unacceptable to admit this. For example, in a debate about global warming, someone may not give a damn if some areas will be flooded or desertified, because he lives in a place he doesn't expect to be affected. But it would be unacceptable to admit this, so he rather denies the climate change.

Edit: It's also possible that, other than deliberate lying, he doesn't admit to himself either that subconsciously he doesn't care.

I just feel that...absolutely no-one thinks like me.

And all these stupid internet arguments you see, 90% of it is based on the fact that people don't read because they CBA, or because they all have stupid egos and dismiss new ideas.

Yes, I'm pissed off. People CBA to think. People would rather stick to their guns, either for "moral" reasons, or for the simple fact that they CBA to consider anything else.

It's easier to belittle others rather than see a different POV. At the moment, I f***ing hate people.

I'll also add what a stupid statement it is to say that religion is evil. It isn't. It's the fact that people, underneath it all, follow each other, like Lemmings off a cliff.

I'm not convinced Aspies are any different to NTs in this regard: once they've got a fixed idea in their minds they can be just as stubborn and inflexible. This quote describes my dad to a tee.

He can become quite defensive when she asks for clarification or a little sympathy. The defensiveness can turn into verbal abuse (usually not physical abuse) as the man attempts to control the communication to suit his view of the world.

Source: http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_4a3 ... 112c8.html

I'm not all that different. I'm quite inflexible in how I view the world and there hasn't been any CBT or antidepressant which has altered that worldview. I can change my mind, but I need high-quality evidence before I will do so. If it's just biased crap you've picked up from an internet blog, then you can jog on.

EDIT: If this is about internet debates, then in my experience of those nobody's mind is ever changed. People will recycle the same political, social, etc. views ad infinitum.

Last edited by NiceCupOfTea on 23 Nov 2014, 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Yeah, i do not think anyone can claim complete objectivity, nor should. People mostly care about their own egos and whatever social constructs they go by. This world is a social one. I may not like it very much but OOOH LOOK AT THE CUTE PUPPY!! !! !! !

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Some relevance in this to the topic, I think...

Sometimes learning just one new thing has a domino effect on everything else the person thinks they know. It would require a total paradigm shift and most of the time, people just don't want that. They want to keep the status quo.

That is very relevant. Thank you very much for adding this. I am going to spread this link everywhere.

If the author of that article thinks people have got worse on the internet, she clearly only became an internet user for the first time about 2 days ago.

The thing is, you absolutely need theories in order to find out the answers.

Silly theories also need to be explored. I find on WP however, that people take that to the extreme, and question the trolls on here as if they're legitimate. I don't mean just people who joke around, but ones who ask questions like, "Do all males like stupid blonde girls?" for example.

Otherwise, silly (but genuine) theories do need to be listened to and not mocked. First of all people need to know how to tell the genuine and the trolling apart. But yeh, that'll never happen.

Some people do change their minds (I sometimes do), but it's not usually a 180-degree turnaround and it might not happen while the discussion/debate is still alive. Personally, if I can see both sides or don't have a strong opinion, I may just read along and not get involved in the first place. If the bickering goes on like you said, I'm gone! It gets old.

Last edited by KimD on 23 Nov 2014, 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeh, it challenges their foundations of who they are. Very personal. I wish people would disconnect from that somewhat.

I think as an aspie, being exposed to the highs and lows of emotions, and being forced to disconnect from them sometimes...this has enabled me to disconnect. Nobody else has to question anything because they've never had to. They've never had to question who they really are. Having said that though, most aspies are still far more rigid, I think. Surely they've had to question themselves? But instead they've built up the wall even higher and are even more insecure at being questioned.

@smudge - I think the beer is going to my head: I'm struggling with comprehending your answer :-/

Re theories - don't think I disagree with you there. The whole of science is founded upon the thinking up of theories or hypotheses, and then proving or disproving them as objectively as possible. People who try to dismiss something as only being a "theory" are idiots, i.e. creationists who decry evolution as only being a "theory" and not a "fact". Well, dur. Pretty much everything in science is a working theory: some are just so established as to be taken granted for truth at the present time.

At the other end of the spectrum are your sheer crankpots, e.g. the ones who still believe the earth is flat, that vaccines are bad, etc. They have theories too, unfortunately; only their theories aren't backed up by any credible science.

As for deliberate trolling, it happens. You get people who make a controversial topic solely for a reaction and then never post in it again. Imo, they are fairly easy to spot, but probably the brighter ones do manage to stay under the radar for a while.

This reply is a bit rambling; sorry about that... :-/

I like this quote from Daniel Patrick Moynihan:

"Everyone is entitled to their own set of opinions, but not to their own set of facts"