Question about Connecting with NTs

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Say there is a person on the autism spectrum who follows certain basic social rules but refuses to try to communicate the way non-autistics do (i.e. modulate body language, respond to social cues, make small talk properly, modify what is said to suit social situations).

Do you think an autistic person who refuses to "act in NT ways" can get successfully integrated into a group of NTs who have no social or psychiatric issues whatsoever? If yes, what do you think it would take for that person - would it perhaps involve self-advocacy?

Would the self-advocacy involve disclosure of diagnosis or could it be just individual traits description, considering the person on the spectrum may miss nuances of situations and not be sure when to self-disclose/self-advocate?

Perhaps this is a question more for those who have had extensive experience with others on the spectrum, but thought I'd give it a try. I think I ask really big questions sometimes that few can answer.

It depends on the situation, but it is not unheard of for a group to include a member who is odd. Like Spencer in Criminal Minds. To be accepted despite social deficiencies you'd have to offer something else of value to the group.

Right, makes sense. That "something else" needs to be something that no one else can offer, though, I'd think.

Theoretically no one can offer the same as another as we are each a unique snowflake. Is this a real life situation for you or theoretical?

I act like my natural self and don't/can't fake what I'm not, and I am accepted by neurotypical people at the office where I tutor high school students.

Yup theoretical, the reason for asking has to do with a lot of different things that would take a very long time to describe.

Thanks, good to know! Do they know aabout your ASD diagnosis, though?

They don't know, they just think I am unique weirdo.

But they aren't your friends or anything, are they?

Not friends, as in socializing outside work, but I don't socialize outside tutoring job or research lab, I am not into socializing. I would say that I am accepted in both groups though, one that knows about autism and one that doesn't. I don't talk about autism in relation to me with the people who know, mostly only when they ask a specific question. When I talk about autism in lab group, it is in terms of scientific data and hypotheses about autism/neurotypical brains/cognition/behavior in general, not about me. Sometimes, I might refer to something as a joke like "asd cutting", which means cut out a circle printed on a piece of paper such that the edge is perfect. Or "asd answer", which means describing something as it appears without using the word for it, like "three black things on three white things on one rectangular thing" instead of "sushi" to describe a picture of sushi that someone drew.

By the way, I was most pleased when someone suggested that I would be good match for Dr. Spencer Reid on Criminal Minds.

Funny you say "you don't socialize outside of research lab" because I have just gotten a position at a lab that appears quite social; for example, they have meetings every week and are having a Christmas party next week. I also heard that some labs seem to have complex social dynamics. Also, in some labs, all lab members form friendships among each other, and the lab supervisor specifically seeks out students who are friendly and personable.

I haven't disclosed my ASD diagnosis to most people in one of my labs, except for one student who was in the same class as me at one point. I told her not to tell the other lab members. Considering it's an ASD research lab, it was quite awkward. After lots of people-watching and genuine curiosity about how people work, I notice behavioural patterns quite well, am extremely aware of my own differences, and notice it when people behave differently toward me compared to others. I didn't disclose because I thought it would be redundant and also thought that perhaps they would notice it anyway. So it was very awkward when one of the lab members hinted quite explicitly at the fact that I have it (she offered me information about and suggested I join a program for students with ASD).

Another time I never disclosed was when I attended ASD conferences. It was also very weird, people would be friendly at first and then would quickly become distant and appear to not want to talk. I was very open about my ASD at last month's conference and the change in how people approached me was drastically positive. It might have been a coincidence, or a "correlation does not equal causation" thing, but still something to consider. I'd honestly rather not have to disclose directly, it can be very awkward. I'm still thinking whether disclosure would be a good thing at next week's party.

Last edited by MathGirl on 12 Dec 2014, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think my professor specifically seeks out people who are not that social and obsessed with research instead.
He even told me once that he thought social is not that good, after he told me that I "have obsession".

Do you mean that you might tell all the lab people at the party?

Ackshuly, I never told anyone besides the professor and his wife who also works in the lab that I have asd, and I didn't tell them to not tell others or hide it either.
I just allowed all the other people to find out over time through rumor mill and make inferences through things that I or others said during meetings, conversations, etc.
All the people who now know through finding out however they found out, none of them has asked me if I had asd to confirm it directly out of my mouth, but it is generally known fact in lab now, and perhaps in other labs too, I am not sure and don't care.

Perhaps I would tell everyone, or maybe just tell a few and let the "rumor mill" do the rest. I find I don't ever get to talk to everyone at parties, I just find a couple or a few people I feel most comfortable with and get into an interesting conversation with them for the rest of the night. When I do decide to disclose, I usually mention it at a relevant enough point in the conversation, or if I see someone puzzled by an aspect of my behaviour (or if I get into a very awkward situation because of my own peculiarities). In terms of disclosing, I kind of have done the same thing so far. There's only one lab I'm involved in where I've openly disclosed to practically everyone. In my third lab, I never disclosed at all, but again I could pick up perhaps more subtle indicators that my lab supervisor figured out I have it.

I care about it only because I know people feel more comfortable around others when they're not confused by their behaviour. Also because I can pick up on these little discrepancies in people's behaviour all too well.

Another thing to beware is if any of the lab members try to add me on Facebook. My entire profile is full of me going to events for people with disabilities, posting stuff about my own disabilities, and I have some clearly autistic/disabled friends.

That's pretty much my situation. My closest group of friends are all people I've known for 20+ years, people who were originally my brother's friends (he is autistic too but he adjusted better at an earlier age).

We're practically like blood brothers so the guys "in the pack" are very well accustomed to my symptoms. They don't read too much into my facial expressions or body language, and there isn't much in the way of small talk with us. It's always engaged and imaginative discussion.

It takes time, that's all. People you're close to and people who are willing to understand. At first they didn't get it either but over time they came to understand that "luke makes all kinds of weird facial expressions, and he has trouble with thus and such". It wasn't a very big deal for them to adjust and I help up my end by learning to communicate better when I'm frustrated, flustered, irritated, anxious or whatever. We've been around each other so much and four of us (me and my brother, and the Durante brothers) grew up together, so it wasn't a huge deal.

That makes sense, too. They didn't have to go through introductions and that initial period where they are trying to get used to the fact that you may not pick up on social cues and respond to them appropriately, etc. They seem to have been naturally socialized to understand and accept ASD traits, which is awesome. This looks like a very different situation than meeting people through work or school, as you grew up together and know each other so well.