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simon2wright
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17 Mar 2007, 12:29 pm

Schizotypal personality disorder is a serious condition in which a person usually has few to no intimate relationships. Such people tend to turn inward rather than interact with other people, and experience extreme anxiety in social situations.
People with schizotypal personality disorder often have trouble engaging with others and appear emotionally distant. They find their social isolation painful, and eventually develop distorted perceptions about how interpersonal relationships form. They may also exhibit odd behaviors, respond inappropriately to social cues and hold peculiar beliefs.
As a result, people with schizotypal personality disorder often find themselves drifting from one activity to the next, failing to connect with people as they meander through life.
Schizotypal personality disorder is a chronic condition. The pattern typically begins in early adulthood and endures throughout life. There's no cure for schizotypal personality disorder, but psychotherapy and some medications may help alleviate symptoms.
Classic schizotypal personalities are apt to be loners, having few to no intimate relationships. They exhibit extreme anxiety in social situations, often associated more with distrust and an inability to communicate with others than with a negative self-image. They view themselves as alien or forlorn, and this isolation causes pain as they disengage more and more from relationships and the outside world.
People with schizotypal personalities often have odd patterns of speech and ramble endlessly on subjects tangent to a topic of conversation. They may dress in peculiar ways and have very strange ways of viewing the world around them. Often they harbor unusual ideas, such as believing in the powers of ESP or a "sixth sense." At times, they believe they can magically influence people's thoughts, actions and emotions.
In adolescence, signs of a schizotypal personality may begin as a gravitation toward solitary activities or a high level of social anxiety. The child may be an underperformer in school or appear socially out-of-step with peers, and as a result often becomes the subject of bullying or teasing.
Symptoms of schizotypal personality disorder include:
Incorrect interpretation of events, including feeling that external events have personal meaning
Peculiar thinking, beliefs or behavior
Belief in special powers, such as telepathy
Perceptual alterations, in some cases bodily illusions, including "phantom pains" or other distortions in the sense of touch
Idiosyncratic speech, such as loose or vague patterns of speaking or tendency to go off on tangents
Suspicious or paranoid ideas
Flat emotions or inappropriate emotional responses
Lack of close friends outside of the immediate family
Persistent and excessive social anxiety that doesn't abate with time
Schizotypal personality disorder can easily be confused with schizophrenia, which is characterized by intense psychosis, a severe mental state characterized by a loss of contact with reality. While schizotypal personalities may experience brief psychotic episodes with delusions or hallucinations, they are not as pronounced, frequent or intense as in schizophrenia.
Both disorders, along with schizoid personality disorder, belong to what's generally referred to as the "schizophrenic spectrum." Schizotypal personality falls in the middle of the spectrum, with schizoid personality disorder on the milder end and schizophrenia on the more severe end.



Fraz_2006
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17 Mar 2007, 12:34 pm

wow, sounds like me.

I hate mixing with people, and i constantly feel anxious.



Apatura
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17 Mar 2007, 12:46 pm

I also fit all the criteria for schizotypal personality disorder, but, I also have obsessive interests and communication problems.

If I'm not AS, I'm schizotypal.

There might be a genetic connection between AS and Schizophrenia... there is a high rate of A- blood in both populations.

Einstien had a schizophrenic son.



poopylungstuffing
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17 Mar 2007, 2:01 pm

This sounds alot like a friend of mine...(not me)....but the lead singer of my band...who I often refer to as bi-polar with schitophrenic tendancies (rather than being deeply schitzophrenic all the time)...alot of this stuff sounds just like him. Fortunately for him he has a fair amount of friends..because we sorta hang with a group of people who are very accepting or who would normally have alot of alot if difficulty having friends under "normal" circumstances..He is more social than I am in fact..



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17 Mar 2007, 2:23 pm

Everytime I take a personality disorder test,I get Schizoid personality.


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Noetic
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17 Mar 2007, 3:10 pm

I so do not get the misdiagnosis of Schizotypy as AS and vice-versa. A lot of people with ASDs are such strong realists and fact-bound people, whereas a schizotypal person is so "away with the fairies" they are barely able to tell what is real and what isn't. Also paranoia and social phobia are not the same as having bad social skills or not "getting it" socially!

I do believe there are a fair few people misdiagnosed though, at least that is what the literature seems to imply. Personally yes I have grown to appreciate fiction etc. but people who mix reality and fantasy scare the heebie jeebies outta me. I'm confused enough by most NTs!

Mind you a lot of the time it is my own literal interpretation and my ADD that makes me THINK someone is fantasising or psychotic. My ex once told me about this guy who went through a portal and it turns out he is psychic and then aliens came etc. etc. and I was freaking out thinking "OMG he's lost it, what the hell am I supposed to do now?". I hadn't realised he was talking about a BOOK! :lol:



Apatura
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17 Mar 2007, 3:28 pm

Noetic: I did a poll here asking people if they had any degree of delusional thinking. Most said they did. A lot of people with AS are somewhat paranoid, which can look "delusional" to an outsider.

Another reason I think I have AS and not schizotypal p.d. is that I stim, and did even more so as a kid. I banged my head, bit my arms, etc. as a child.

Autism in children sometimes used to be called "childhood schizophrenia."

Also schizotypal does not account for higher than average IQ, which I have been tested to have.



maldoror
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17 Mar 2007, 4:21 pm

I think I'm somewhere in between AS and Schizoaffective; it's been something I've wanted to read more about and haven't gotten around to. There's so much that's weird about my personality that isn't explained by what I've read in these forums and there are some pretty fundamental differences.



Noetic
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17 Mar 2007, 4:35 pm

Apatura wrote:
Noetic: I did a poll here asking people if they had any degree of delusional thinking. Most said they did. A lot of people with AS are somewhat paranoid, which can look "delusional" to an outsider.

That's the point though, the "childhood schizophrenia" thing came from the way the behaviour sometimes LOOKED like it was delusional etc. and like hallucinations were going on. But the thing is, a child focusing on specks of dust or on tiny details on a rock or the palm of their hand may LOOK like they are "seeing things", but they are not seeing things that aren't there - merely things others don't may much attention to.

I am more HFA than AS so I don't have the level of self-awareness and self-conscience for paranoid ideation, but I do know that with AS that "paranoia" stems from genuine experiences with bullying and social skills problems. It can become obsessional but that is not the same as genuine paranoia or social phobia.

I think every person has a certain degree of "delusional thinking" especially in childhood, but some are just more socially acceptable. Having read on boards where Schizotypals shared their experiences, I can say that there is a huge difference between your average Aspie or Autie and the kind of reality loss going on there. I'm not saying you can't have traits of both but what may LOOK like delusions in autism usually has a logical explanation when one goes to the bottom of it. With Schizoptypy and Schizophrenia, it doesn't.

I think the only reason why the two get misdiagnosed as each other is that sometimes diagnosticians don't bother to try to understand what their patients say and experience. So someone whose perceptions differ from the norm is labelled psychotic or schizotypal even if it turns out they have sensory issues typical for autism, and that those 'delusions' are merely their interpretation of real facts and they are not, in fact, seeing things or hallucinating etc.

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Also schizotypal does not account for higher than average IQ, which I have been tested to have.

AS doesn't CAUSE a high IQ, it is merely defined as autistic symptoms in people who aren't mentally ret*d. :)



Noetic
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17 Mar 2007, 4:52 pm

Just an example of the kind of ways schizotypal patients express themselves, there is a huge difference between that and autistic language quirks. Also the kinds of beliefs that are genuinely delusional (yeah I see the connection with some modern-day religions...).

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Notes of first therapy session with El-Or (real name: George), male, 22, diagnosed with Schizotypal Personality Disorder
El-Or's real name is George. He changed it as a result of an epiphany he experienced at the tender age of 9 when he encountered an alien spaceship in his back yard and "in all probability" was abducted by its crew. Can't he remember for sure? It's all kind of fuzzy, but ever since then he has had numerous out of body experiences and has developed psychic capabilities such as clairvoyance and remote viewing. "I can see that you don't believe a word of it." - he declaims bitterly - "You probably can't wait to tell the other therapists here about me and have a good laugh at my expense." I remind him that therapy sessions are strictly confidential but he nods his head sagely: "Yeah, sure, whatever you say, Doc."

El-Or, wounded by my skepticism, lapses into his own private language: "The locust days are here and the wise shall behold and not see, hear the deafening and yet not be lifted." Can he help me understand what he just said? "Your crown is naked, councillor, 'tis there to fathom and yours to cling to. All your kind shall perish if you forsake not your mind's cage." In other words: I better believe what he tells me and give up my prejudices - or I shall be rendered obsolete and dispensable when the time comes.


El-Or firmly believes that Earth is about to be overtaken by alien species. They are already here, scouting the land and choosing who will be "lifted" and who will "perish". Many adepts have defected to "their" side and are collaborating with the aliens in the subjugation of Mankind and the ultimate conquest of our planet. El-Or, though, has decided not to betray his kind. His self-assigned mission is to warn of the impending doom and save as many "enlightened" souls as he can. Hence his irritation with my attempts to puncture holes in his scenario.

El-Or is "marked". Every morning he paints a giant bright-red square on his forehead to renew his covenant with his erstwhile captors. He also wears a multicoloured armband and ankle bracelets. He does that to make "them" think that he is fully converted to "their" cause.

Surreptitiously, though, to signify his true allegiance, he paints a pale blue circle - a symbol of our habitat - under the square. And he always carries with him a duffle bag stuffed with clothes and bare necessities: his "flight kit". Only his intimates, people he can trust with his life, all of them first-degree relatives, know about this subterfuge. "It is very dangerous to go against" the aliens, he susurrates and glances around the room fretfully.

El-Or resents the fact that his love for humanity is not reciprocated and that the huge sacrifices he is making are not being recognized. People frequently mock him and ridicule his ideas, often behind his back, when he is unable to defend himself and show them the errors of their ways. That's why he has no friends. He can trust no one. "The knife in the back always thrust by the pretending soul mate." Does he feel safe in the framework of psychotherapy? "Heaven and Earth conceal that which cannot be revealed" - is his enigmatic response.



Apatura
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17 Mar 2007, 5:00 pm

Noetic (I almost wrote el-or :lol:) I know that AS doesn't cause high IQ or vice versa. High IQ is just a somewhat typical trait.

Well here's my question... it is often said that people with Asperger's lack imagination (probably a misunderstanding of our tendency to take things literally) and that we don't daydream.

I however have a very rich inner world and have a vivid imagination (and many others here seem to as well, just look at the games in random discussion).

I was not able to play in imaginative ways with other kids as a child, though, I could only play alone. So probably again, the lack of social imaginative play is interpeted as "lacks imagination." Even though I had plenty of it inside myself.

So what degree of imagination can be a determinant of autism? Is it a trait or something that would exclude one from AS?

I often wonder if my paranoia is the result of real-life threats i.e. bullying which I endured to a severe extent.



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17 Mar 2007, 5:00 pm

-----------^ That sounds like full blown schizophrenia.

I think, when considering the differences between the two conditions, you have to keep an open mind as to what causes what. Negative experiences with other kids when you're young could result in social paranoia, for sure, but negative social experiences could just as easily have resulted from a paranoia that was already there. To figure out "which came first," I'd consider exactly how far paranoia and delusion extends, and if it exists in isolation, which for me it does and since my mother has a similar condition and is definately NOT AS, I'm compelled to think it's organic.



Noetic
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17 Mar 2007, 5:19 pm

Apatura wrote:
Noetic (I almost wrote el-or :lol:) I know that AS doesn't cause high IQ or vice versa. High IQ is just a somewhat typical trait.

LOL... sorry that's OK then, I just have a bee in my bonnet about the whole AS = high IQ thing (if you only diagnose AS in people with average to above average IQs then of course Aspies will have a higher average IQ)

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I was not able to play in imaginative ways with other kids as a child, though, I could only play alone. So probably again, the lack of social imaginative play is interpeted as "lacks imagination." Even though I had plenty of it inside myself.

So what degree of imagination can be a determinant of autism? Is it a trait or something that would exclude one from AS?

Good question. I do think there is a certain overlap, like a subgroup of autism where schizotypal elements and "too much imagination" also play a role. It's a different flavour of autism to "the norm" but it is still autism. Yale have called it "Mutliplex Developmental Disorder" but it's not in the DSM (yet).

On another note though, I think with the definition of imagination in autism it's a case of communication as much as a lack of imagination. A child who does not communicate when they hurt themselves is not going to communicate about their inner world, so how are these experts to know what goes on inside that child's head?

Personally, while I can be very creative and have a certain amount of "involuntary" (e.g. when I sit down with a pen and paper or with my laptop it just kind of pours out) creative imagination, I sure had a lot of trouble with imagination as a kid. I had moments, rare moments, where I saw my Dad's duvet as a car, or where I had ideas for a board game, but these moments evaporated so fast... and it was back to sorting, stacking and lining up things again.

I had obsessions that I TRIED my damndest to fantasize about, and have to some degree managed to get it written out as a story once, but I always ended up getting stuck, kept going over things and perfecting details, unable to think past facts. It was very frustrating :(

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I often wonder if my paranoia is the result of real-life threats i.e. bullying which I endured to a severe extent.

That sure would cause paranoia, although I'm not sure if that is still called that. I'd call it PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), personally. But that's the problem, experts hear something and say it's paranoia, but they don't seem to think for a moment that perhaps the person might have had experiences that lead them to have a justified reason for fearing those things.



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17 Mar 2007, 7:54 pm

Paranoia in AS is due to bullying and social difficulties first and foremost, whereas Paranoia in Schizotypal PD is due to a reduction in a person’s ability to think logically and clearly, demonstrated by their tendency to form paranoid eccentric ideas about global conspiracies and UFO’s. People who are Schizoid and AS are logical loving sceptics.

Schizotypal PD is “mild” Schizophrenia. Like Asperger's is "mild" Autism. People with Schizotypal PD are the ones who wear tin foil hats to beaming UFO’s sending them messages. No seriously...

There are more similarities between Schizoid PD and ASDs then there are differences (they may be part of the same spectrum; I read that Schizoid people are more sensitive to criticism, don’t seek social relationships and their interests are hobbies rather then obsessions). There is no relationship between Schizotypal PD and autism, though there may be overlap in a minority, they could have both. People with Schizotypal PD are more likely to develop Schizophrenia.

It is getting very windy out right now! Hope the electricity does not go off.



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17 Mar 2007, 8:26 pm

We had a thread that had a link for an online test that screened for personality "disorders". Schizotypal personality scored high with many of those that took the test. Trying to pin point some precise diagnosis of your condition is utterly pointless people. There is no way to quantify the degree one has certain traits in a statistically meaningful way.

One guy with aspergers maybe highly functioning head of a large computer software company and another maybe living in a card board box under a bridge. Both may have the precise list of traits on any number of screening tests.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... chizotypal



Noetic
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17 Mar 2007, 8:31 pm

Diamonddavej wrote:
Paranoia in AS is due to bullying and social difficulties first and foremost, whereas Paranoia in Schizotypal PD is due to a reduction in a person’s ability to think logically and clearly, demonstrated by their tendency to form paranoid eccentric ideas about global conspiracies and UFO’s. People who are Schizoid and AS are logical loving sceptics.

Good summary! :)

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It is getting very windy out right now! Hope the electricity does not go off.

Yup... locked the cat flap. I had to get 3 replacement ones opn warranty in the last 12 months due to high winds here blowing the cat flap away (up up, and away!), I think the manufacturing company is getting impatient with me ;)