How exactly to find middle ground

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What I mean by this is, I am increasingly unsure of where exactly this community stands on the extent to which autistics need to go to find middle ground with neurotypicals. And obviously there will be no true unanimous consensus however I was wondering what members here would think about specific issues regarding how autistic people function in the normal world.

For example, I have read stories about autistic kids not allowed to go to church because they were getting overly aggressive and I get the impression that autistic advocates would consider this an injustice. However, in cases where autistic kids are actually being violent towards others in a public setting it seems like basic common sense that even autistic kids can never be taught that this is ok and that if they are being violent than it is a problem that needs to be solved, through removal from the specific space if necessary. I think that in a setting like church if someone with autism is being overly aggressive towards others than it should not be treated as an ok thing and they need to be sent to a different setting, possibly another church or just worshipping at home, if that is necessary to stop the violence. Do most people here, whether they have autism or are related to someone with autism, feel that this is essentially correct or do they feel I am missing something?

And also, while I felt that cases like the Reginal Latson case were miscarriages of justice, it was important to understand that even autistic kids need to be taught that attacking an officer for any reason has serious ramifications and so the officers who are not prepared cannot be 100 % responsible, though of course the screw ups of the justice system afterwards are a different story. And someone with autism who is uncontrollably aggressive may still need to be treated as a threat in certain cases, especially when someone can't tell that autism is causing the aggression. I was wondering if most people here agree on this and if not, what am I missing?

I hope and pray this is not to inflammatory but I am still trying to figure out exactly what the stances of Wrong Planet members are on these fundamental issues about the autism spectrum.

It makes sense to me that someone who is overly aggressive in an uncontrolled way should get treatment to reduce aggression and increase control and also be considered a danger to others around them and therefore kept away from others until the aggression can be controlled. I don't want to be around an autistic person or any other person who is uncontrolled and overly aggressive, that is dangerous for me, and I would want to leave that situation, as would most people, and I don't think it is unjust to ask the aggressive person to be kept away instead, so others can still be in that situation with greater safety.

Reality check: this community is not anything remotely like a unit. There is no single perspective, point-of-view or opinion about anything here. Given the heterogeneous nature of the community, any search for a single representative stance on any topic is a futile effort.

That said, I agree with btbnnyr about the hypothetical "overly aggressive" person. But then, that sort of goes with the word "overly" doesn't it?

These are fundamental issues? I am more interested in the neurology, genetics and symptomatology of autism than the issues you raise.

Is it sometimes true that people can be violent in ways that require some sort of restraint? Yes. Is there anything about autism that negates this general human reality? No.

By overly aggressive, I mean someone hitting people, pushing people, throwing things, doing physical acts that can harm others in an uncontrolled manner like they can't inhibit starting to do these things and/or can't stop immediately and/or can't recognized that they shouldn't start or should stop.

Any person that presents a threat to others should be removed.

This is totally correct, and I did try to make a disclaimer to qualify what I meant in my second sentence. But you are right that even in the first sentence I should have said something more along the lines of "individual members of the community from various perspectives" in order to make it clear that I was aware of the widely different opinions that undoubtedly exist and that even saying "the community" in the first sentence was a major error on my part.

wow, where have you been?

Would it be possible for you to clarify what you mean by that? I feel that in the context of this discussion that response could literally mean anything so I was curious.

It's silly for either side to expect the other to make all the adjustments.

I don't think autistic people are particularly "uncontrollably aggressive," so the examples seem unrepresentative of normal autistic life. Brain damage can cause aggressive behaviour, so can aggressive caregivers, aggressive peers, abuse, and being pushed around too much. I doubt it would happen if those things were as they should be. Kids don't just get up and attack for no reason.

I don't see it as a "middle ground" problem. Compromise is for conflicts that would otherwise remain entrenched. I do think it's important for both parties to work for a solution. Often there can be a win-win deal, or at least a good idea that ensures nobody suffers too much.

I haven't been anywhere special.

What I meant was if a person, regardless of their neurology, is a threat to another (especially a group of people), in a way that the the threat is not purely an interpretation designed to victimize the individual, they should be removed.

If an autistic person has a meltdown on a bus and is thrashing around, IMO they should be taken off the bus. If a neurotypical was having a rage fit they too should be removed. Neither would necessarily have been the person's fault, but it's for the safety of others.

Violence is unacceptable. Autistic kids should be taught this early.
Not making eye contact and trouble with verbal expressions are things neurotypical society can learn to accept.

It was literal.
I had not seen him post here in a long time.

People on the autism spectrum are more victims of violence than initiators of violence. Would be happy to discuss a specific example of autistics engaging in violence in church activities than OP's speculations and generalisations.

I would only ask for more acceptance when it comes to social awkwardness and anxiety. That's my only issue with neurotypicals. I think that's true for most people, too. The aggression you described, I don't think anyone can truly expect strangers to understand and be patient and I think a lot of us would prefer to just be left alone and isolated if such a thing happens, but the people close to us.. it'd be nice if they understood it a little (or a lot) better.