From My Non-Atusim Perspective

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I recently tried to teach my friend (who I think has Asperburgers) to use Pinterest. She was already familiar with it and works on a computer every day and orders on line products regularly. We had a huge blow up because I kept explaining it was only three steps. She just kept insisting her brain could not handle it but she wanted to learn it. I suggested someone else do the pinning and she do proofreading (which she is good it)

The next day I sent her the following to see if she could grasp what it was like for me (she couldn't).
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Person #1: I will teach you how to make chocolate milk. First you measure the milk (pours milk from jug into a measuring cup).
Person #2: But why do you need one cup why not one and a quarter cup?
Person #1: Because this is the recipe we are using and it calls for it. (Pours the milk from the measuring cup into a glass).

Person #1: Secondly we measure one tablespoon of chocolate syrup ( putting syurp into a measuring spoon).

Person #2: I don't like syrup why can't we use chocolate powder?
Person #1: Because this is the recipe we are using and it calls for syrup (puts syrup into the glass of milk).

Person #1. Now we use a spoon to stir the chocolate (stirs milk). And that is how you make chocolate milk.
Person #2: I don't understand. Why did you even put the milk in a measuring cup what didn't you just pour it in the glass?


Person #1. Its not that complicated. It is just three steps. 1. Pour milk. 2. Add chocolate. 3. Stir. let me show you again. First you measure the milk (as he is pouring in milk into a measuring cup).
Person #2: But how do I know how fast to pour? What brand of milk is it? What if I don't have that brand of milk?
Person #1: It doesn't matter how fast or slow just measure one cup. Any brand of milk is ok. (Pours the milk from the measuring cup into a glass).

Person #1: Secondly we measure one tablespoon of chocolate syrup (putting syrup into a measuring spoon).
Person #2: Who wrote the recipe and why did they call it syrup?
Person #1: I don't know its just how this recipe works. Please let me finish explaining (puts syrup into the glass of milk).

Person #1. Now we use a spoon to stir the chocolate. And that is how you make chocolate milk.
Person #2: I don't get it. It doesn't make sense to me. Where does the chocolate come from and why do they call it chocolate?

Person #1: You don't need to know those things to make this recipe. It is just three steps. 1. Pour milk. 2. Add chocolate. 3. Stir.
Person #2. I told you I was a slow learner. I think differently. Its not just there steps. You go too fast.

Person #1. Ok, Sigh, l et me show you again. First you measure the milk (pouring in milk into a measuring cup).
Person #2: What if you spill the milk?
Person #1: It doesn't matter if you spill a few drops, you can wipe it up after. Measure one cup (pouring the milk from the measuring cup into a glass).

Person #1: Secondly we measure one tablespoon of chocolate syrup. (as he is putting syrup into a measuring spoon).
Person #2: What if I don't like chocolate milk?
Person #1: Sighs, you know what? My friend can make the milk (w ashes the milk down the sink). You know how to make good tea, I'll have you make tea.

Person #2. You are calling me stupid. You think I am an idiot.
Person #1: No, I didn't. I think you can work on making tea better and you will enjoy it more.

Person #2. I want to make milk (grabs the gallon of milk).Why don't I have a measuring cup?
Person #1. I did not get you a measuring cup or measuring spoon because you did not need them until you were ready. I have them in the cabinet.
Person #2. Well that is the problem. You should have explained to me where the cup and spoon are!!
Person #1. You didn't need them until you understood. If I explained where they were before you need them it would have been too much information. I was trying to teach you the three steps.
Person #2. You won't listen to me. I listen to you and you won't listen to me. You are calling me stupid and saying I can't do anything and I'm a stupid piece of s**t.
Person #1. I'm am tired. I need to go home now.

Person #2. Please don't go home. I need to be heard. I need to be understood. If you would have told me first the cup and spoon were in the cabinet I would have said OK. It would not be too much information.
Person #1: I am really tired and I have a lot of work to do.
Person #2. But I feel bad. You won't listen to me. You think I'm a pain in the ass. I don't want to be a pain in the ass.
Person #1. Your brain is wired differently. Its better if you make the tea. Don't worry about the milk. I don't think you are a pain I'm trying to avoid a problem.
Person #2.You think I am stupid because you didn't tell me about the cup and spoon.
Person #1. No I don't, but you are being difficult. You are twisting what I say. Sometimes you are hard to deal with. Remember when other people have tried to teach you and gave up because you get mad?
Person #2: You won't listen. I needed all the information. You left out the part the the spoon and cup was in the cabinet.

Person #1: Listen to me. I teach a lot of people how to make drinks. I don't give the 100% of the information. i give them what they need to make the drink and try to not overwhelm them with information they do not need.
Person #2. But I needed to know where the cup and spoon where.
Person #2. No you did not. Not until I was finished explaining the three steps . It wasn't important. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. You tell me all the time you get overwhelmed with too much information.
Person #2. You should have told me. You left it out and I needed to know.
Person #1. I can't deal with all this yelling and arguing.
Person #2. You are yelling. We are both yelling. I don't know who started the yelling.
Person #1. (After trying to explain five more times) I'm am tired. I need to go home now. I'm sorry you feel bad but everything I say you are twisting.
Person #2. (Sulks and pouts.)
Person #1: I am not going to feel guilty (reacting to the sulking). I need to go now.
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I should also mention she wants me to pay her $15 hour to work for me. I am NOT going to pay someone to yell at me.

It sounds like it is a very frustrating experience from your perspective. That takes a lot of patience. It's probably not you she's getting angry at. It's probably got something to do with the fact these tasks bring up old frustrations of sensory overload and fractured communication.

I think a lot of aspies are really into specifics for 2 reasons. On one hand there is the systematic thinking. It's kinda like having a giant flow-chart in your head, and being able to see the outcome of nearly every detail in the long run. Since you automatically do this, when you make a mistake, you really hate it because you "knew better". Its also a lot of information to sort through. Internally she has 50 little pieces all interacting with each other. Having all of these details float around makes sensory overload more concentrated. If on the external, someone is frustrated with you because what is easy for them is not for you then there's another force at play. At least for me, if I'm under a lot of pressure, feeling embarrassed and internally overwhelmed, lights get brighter, sounds become really loud as though you were standing next to an amp at a rock concert.

Then there is the other aspect where it is like you have been speaking a different language than everyone around you your entire life and it feels as though everyone thinks you are less of a person because of it. It's like you are always trying to convey a message and the other person interprets it differently. When you are listening, you come to 8 different possible conclusions of what they could mean. For thinking creatively this is great. When the conventional way doesn't serve it's purpose, you can come up with 7 different alternative ways to accomplish things without effort. This makes things very difficult for relating with others though.

I think of it as the term thinking out of the box. Many people try to "think outside of the box". They try to find something that isn't what everyone else does. For me it's as I was never given "the box" so I don't know which answer is the one that everyone will relate with. There are many things I can look at and intuitively do that others cannot, but these less popular skills don't mean anything to the world because they aren't in step with society.

I can pull up an instruction manuel or search anything online and become an expert on every in and out of nearly any task, and do it optimally. My boss knows this, will tell me what my objective is and he knows the task will be done quickly, well, and I will be the go-to person for anyone who has questions about any aspect following that. Listening to instructions is a bit harder. It skips between one thing and the next before I can make all the micro-decisions and connections. I do better when I understand what is going on with the whole system. 3 written down steps are easy for me. 3 verbal really depend on the environment.

In all honesty, I'm not sure friends working for friends is really a good idea unless they share a rhythm. I don't like managing or supervising friends because there are so many conflicts of interest. If she is good at editing and has a degree she may want to look into textbook editing. I had a friend who did that. I really commend your patience in trying to understand what she is going through. I can see that you want to be heard as well and you should be. While I can guess at what is going on, the explanation doesn't justify the behavior. Aspergers or not, she should not be taking these frustrations out on you. She needs to learn to manage them. We all have unique challenges in life, and each person needs to figure out how to keep theirs from hurting others.

I think you've go it right. We need to know all the context. Simple instructions without all the context are not enough.
Simply following step by step instructions without knowing the reason and all the context and meaning behind what we are doing is a bad idea.
It's important to understand something thoroughly rather than blindly following instructions.
Why do you have a problem with this?

You seem very highly strung and you expect everyone's mind to work like yours. Then your rude and use subtle put downs all the time. I don't think your a good teacher at all...

Take a good look at your attitude. Would you like someone to talk to you like that if they were teaching you something you knew nothing about?

She was very aware of the reasons. I never asked her not to know the reasons.
It was put content on a Pinterest board to market materials.

The milk was an example. The thing she did not need to know wa how to install the Pinterest button to her computer-- because it only had to be done once and I did it for her-- it would have been EXTREMELY overwhelming to her based on previous experience.
It actually went like this

1. Click the pin button
2. Choose the picture you want to pin
3. Choose the board you want to pin it to.

I explain this three step process 4 times patiently. She interrupted and complained and whined twenty times. It seems to me she was more interested in showing me her brain worked differently than learning (she is arrogantly proud of it). All at my $15 an hour.

Another example: I needed to send her a large document in a zip folder. She said "Can't you send it unzipped I don't want to have to learn something new" NO, I could not send it unzipped. So she had me drive 15 minutes to bring her a thumb drive.

Gezzzz she have time to learn to double click the folder- someone that can order things on line can certainly upzip a folder or they should not be looking for a job using a computer.

I was trying to give her the benefit of maybe being aspie-- but she may just be an ass.

I'm sure you were acting with good intentions, but I'm afraid I tend to agree with starfox that you don't seem to be the ideal person to be 'teaching' your friend in this way. Your knowledge of people on the autism spectrum appears to be limited, - witnessed by the fact that you refer to Asperger's Syndrome as 'Asperburger's Syndrome' - so I think you need to either learn a lot more about ASD or leave the job to someone who has expertise in this highly complex and sensitive area. Your friend clearly has any number of issues that need to be addressed by someone with the relevant training and experience.

Also, your final comment that she 'may be an Aspie' - or just an 'ass' says more about you than it does her.

Well that example seems a little out there...I mean there isn't really any specific way to make chocolate milk. In this example it sort of seems person 1 expects everyone to do things just the way they do or else thinks they are doing it wrong and person two just seems really dense.

And maybe pinterest just isn't the site for her, instead of insisting it was only 3 steps as if that is the only possible way to see it, why not just trying to explain it without empathizing how many steps it is. Maybe its 3 steps for you...That said I am good at using computers and there are still sites that confuse me, like Twitter it just looks like a disorganized cluster f***. Are there other sites simular or that would work for whatever it is they where interested in pinterest for?

Also sometimes its best when friends don't work for each other...I mean obviously you being the boss and them working for you changes dynamics of things and could also negatively effect the friendship. Are they already working for you or you offered they could and they want no less than 15 dollars. Also its sort of hard to gather what exactly happened or what the issue is, when did she scream at you and why? Are you certain you don't scream at her?

I suppose I can see why your illustrated example didn't cause your friend any revelation...I mean is she really so dense you think this is how it would go if you hypothetically showed her how to make chocolate milk? And would you really be as particular as the person showing how to make chocolate milk?

I'm thinking the two of you don't have that great of chemistry and probably shouldn't be working together. It seems like it is frustrating on your end, and hers. You aren't getting what you are paying for; she isn't fitting. In a bigger workplace, you can pair up people to train others who understand one another better, and move people to different spots to make the fit better. Given that, it sounds as though you are a small business owner you two are going to go at it a lot. You really aren't going to get that much done. Resentment will only build. If you are just looking for an editor or a personal assistant, you may want to try a local college. Most college students are more used to making minimum wage, are more open to learning new things, and English majors should be able to meticulously edit.

Being a teacher necessarily means you must understand your student's difficulties and know how to work around them and through them in a patient and encouraging manner. People who are having trouble learning something are already upset and don't need to be talked down to like they are stupid. If she's having trouble understanding your method of teaching, that is your fault. Maybe you have no teacher training and are not a real teacher. A real teacher would never use that voice of impatient condescension like you're using with your student. You're doing more harm than good and you should stop trying to teach immediately.

As for learning how to use Pinterest, maybe it would have been easier if you had sent her an e-mail saying:

While you are logged in to Pinterest and on the main screen, please follow these directions to pin a picture to a Pinterest board:

1. Click the pin button
2. Choose the picture you want to pin
3. Choose the board you want to pin it to.

(Please note that I'm just taking a guess about the main screen ... in my case, I've chosen not to use Pinterest, though I've briefly thought about it. I'm also guessing that she's like me, and that written instructions are a lot easier for her than verbal instructions.)

As for her spending so much time complaining, I wasn't there to see the interaction, but it sounds like you were brushing her off in a patronizing way? I know if it were me, I might have had some questions, but would not have gotten that upset unless the person I was with was putting me down. And if it were me, I would have probably said, "Wait a minute while I take some notes on these instructions you're showing me so I can make sure I'll remember them for next time." And I would have probably written down steps 1, 2, and 3 ... maybe making 1 a bit longer to describe what the pin button looks like ... size, color, screen location.

As for learning how to unzip files ... if she wants to work with computers, she had better learn how. And in fact, she'd better be open to learning about and keeping up with new technology in general.

I speak from experience ... I'm a technical writer who also has an online store.

Aspies are human, with strengths as well as weaknesses, and should do their best to follow the golden rule of treating others as you would like to be treated. Respect, of course, works both ways.

Calling someone an "ass" is not going to help.

...

You've now heard the considered viewpoints of quite a number of people who are either on the spectrum or well-informed about autism. I suggest you take them on board. Your knowledge of Asperger's Syndrome seems to be based on random research done on non-specialist and dubious sites such as Wikipedia, or on hearsay. This is not enough. There's an old saying about autism: 'If you've met one person on the spectrum, then that's all you've done: met one person on the spectrum'. It doesn't make you an expert.

Reading through your posts again, it's clear that the main focus of your attention is yourself and your needs and opinions, not those of your friend. This hardly makes you an ideal teacher (or friend).

As as aspie, that experience would annoy me too and I have had people twist what I say and you know what I would do what you just did, walk away. Aspies can annoy each other with their traits and it sounds like that person has deeper issues like maybe she has been called stupid before so she is assuming you are thinking that too and calling her that but you are just being nice about it by not insulting her.


EDIT: Oh the chocolate milk was hypothetical.

Here's a step-by-step set of instructions for making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I've actually seen it broken down into many more steps.

http://m.instructables.com/id/How-To-Ma ... elly-Sand/

Honestly, there's a lot at play in your example. There's a lot of associative thinking, trouble with executive functioning (among other things, this includes sequencing tasks) and need to understand logic that is inherent in your example. There's also a desire for your friend to do things her own way.

I would recommend developing a LOT more patience and flexibility if you hope to have a positive impact on anyone on the spectrum.

Here are my instructions for making chocolate milk:

1. Pour a glass of milk any size you like ... the milk can be cow milk, coconut milk, soy milk, almond milk, but not chocolate milk from a carton you bought at the store, because that would be cheating.

2. Unwrap a chocolate candy bar of your choice ... dark chocolate, milk chocolate*, white chocolate, etc.

3. Place the chocolate candy bar into the glass of milk.

4. Enjoy! (Maybe you won't, but I will ... after all, these are my instructions.) * mischievous grin *

*Note: Making chocolate milk with milk chocolate sounds really cool, doesn't it? * smile *

...

I wanted to add I do not think you're completely to blame for how this interaction went, or rather its not as if you're totally wrong and she's totally right. I mean responding to you sending a zipped file with 'can't you unzip it because I don't 'want' to learn anything new' does imply kind of a negative/lazy attitude...I mean if she really didn't know how to unzip them and needed help that is one thing but just because she doesn't want to learn something else new? Lol that is not how job positions work.

But when she really is struggling to understand...don't treat it like she's just being difficult maybe try to explain it another way....and if you can't teach her perhaps recommend she take a computer class or something if there's skills she needs to learn that you can't effectively teach.