I wonder

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I wonder how many people get diagnosed with AS but were slow in self help skills or cognitive development? Or who talked late or talked early? I'm asking because I just read Finding Ben and it was about her son who has AS. A mother wrote a book about her son and his son helped write it too. Ben was using complete sentances at age 1 but the criteria says single words at age 2 and complete sentances at age 3 and Ben was slow in self help skills. he didn't know how to take care of himself will he was in his 20's, didn't know how to manage money, etc. He was a mess. When I look at myself, I knew how to take care of myself early as forth grade because I was doing everything, washing my hair and body, wore clean clothes, brushing my teeth and hair. I also knew how to clean and pick up after myself. Ben didn't, even when he was my age. He didn't learn that stuff till he was in his 20's. If there are aspies out there who were slow in cognitive deveoment and self help skills and talked early or late for no medical reason, then that means maybe I really do have AS. Einstein is known to have AS and he talked late. He was suspected of maybe being HFA instead due to speech delay.

Einstein is not known to have had AS... he might be suspected to have had AS, but without resurrecting him from the dead for testing, there is no means to say he did or did not have it.

As to the rest, I was taught to clean my teeth, bathe, change clothes etc, but it is not instinctual with me. I quite often find myself slipping into not doing these things. I could not do my own tie up at school, and still have trouble with shoe laces... I am terrible with money, haven't much idea on paying bills and dealing with official things, and I am 31. I started speaking very young and didn't even crawl...went straight to walking.

Well, the first criteria I saw was complete sentences by 2! In fact, Asperger DID call them little professors because of that. I mean just saying "articulate" doesn't make one so! Einstein was suspected of having "selective mutism". IRONICALLY, it is another condition that seems a bit similar to autism. HECK, one person I know here said SHE didn't talk until later, and it sounds like she had the same kind of thing. She had talked and even read earlier.

AS for "washing hair and body, wearing clean clothes, brushing teeth and hair. clean and pick up after oneself", was that not done because they couldn't, or didn't want to or didn't think of it. AS people are supposed to have self help skills, but having skills doesn't mean they'll use them in a circumstance. Try making a light mess that obstructs what the person wants! Will that person move stuff aside, etc... to get to it? I bet they will! An AS person will, if physically able. That doesn't mean they'll keep everything clean.

Things like tieing shoe laces require a little dexterity to do as much of the world does, etc... I remember that I had a little trouble with that. It was mainly a combination of lack of dexterity, and trouble switching things around when I saw them tied fast, etc.. I had the same kind of trouble later tying a windsor. Still, I could tie lots of knots and it wasn't exactly a needed skill. Heck, I tie windsors only out of a kind of pride, because clipons are frowned upon. Frankly, I don't like having a noose around my neck, and try to avoid ties because of that. In over twenty years, I have worn a tie perhaps 8 days. Each time though, it was a beautiful windsor knot. I ALSO only tie my shoes when they become untied. And HECK, I used to sometimes wear loafers

As for Graelwyn saying certain things were not instinctual? ****HECK**** I see LOTS of people that don't care about such things. It doesn't seem instinctual for them either, and they're NT! I wish they were instinctual! The common cold probably wouldn't exist if they were!

As for managing money, AS people are supposed to understand the concept and need. In rainman, it was shown that he could not figure out money in relation to math. That right there would have shown by itself that he didn't have AS. Some of the management has gotten very complicated though. I mean if you start dealing with stocks/bonds/hybrids/etc.... NOBODY understands all that. If they think they do, ask them what a tranch is, or about good delivery, or even why a bond may be good and reliable, but a bond fund ISN'T!

HECK, I wish I was better at managing money, but with all the different ways to pay, tricks people play, scams, etc... I just don't have time. Autodeduction, multiple accounts, etc... mean I have to estimate more broadly, have more of a cushion, and check more things more often. Still, when I was a kid, I did it to the penny! There was less to be concerned about, and I was more frugal.

Steve

So the AS criteria isn't correct then?

With regard to the speech development, they apparantly changed it.

I read that self help was supposed to be there ALSO. It DOES talk about no clinically significant delays besides social. I think your definition of self help seems overly strict.

Steve

I looked up self help skills online and I read Finding Ben and she mentioned how much Ben was lacking self help skills because he wasn't taking care of himself. So I knew I wasn't that slow in the development in that area. Just only a little.

The closest I ever came to having a problem there was the shoelaces and ties. I think I was like 6 with the shoelaces. I could tie knots, etc.... For ties, I think I was like 16, but that was ALSO about my first exposure to it.

Steve

It also implies asking for help, which is something I couldn't do until I was 30.

Riding a bike late, walking late, tieing shoes late all implies to dyspraxia and I ask myself does that mean they aren't AS either? I have been reading about AS for almost 7 years and I read about how some aspies tie their shoes late, walk late etc, then in the criteria it says there is no delay in self help skills and I didn't know that part of the criteria was required to fit for the diagnoses. I was told I had to fit all of this that was in dark print. Now I know why it says in my doctor records I don't quite meet the criteria but have been diagnosed as having AS.

I think that number would be high because a lot of people don't learn skills like that very easily if they have AS.

In other words, they can definitely say things, but they have trouble realizing what the point of these things are.

Sorry! I feel like we're playing "Card Sharks" at the moment!

It seems to me that AS is a complex collection of personal issues whether "symptoms" or "comorbidities" that is so large that whichever issue one considers, there will be some aspies without it.

Many of these things are internal and so both subjectivd and self reported.

Some of the criteria and results of recent research (much of which seems terribly flawed) are obviously wrong. A example; I doubt anyone could hang around WP and consider that we lack either humor or imagination.

I think that IF the central issuse of AS is a lack of communicative ability with those (generally NT) around us; THEN that communication problem runs both ways. I think that IF I cannot be expected to comprehend NT experience THEN how can an NT expect to comprehend mine?

Until we aspies undertake to study (scientifically, with statistics and everything) ourselves, any (NT made) defintion of AS is incomplete and misleading.

What is with me today?

With a bike, I started rather late, and had no real help. But I ended up figuring it out myself, and do fine. I asked about walking and crawling, and my mother simply said she knew I wasn't late with it. Apparantly I was just about average. As for shoes, I can't remember having any problems over all, and I wasn't THAT far behind other kids, so maybe it was before 6. Maybe it is simply because it was the first thing I can remember having to do that wasn't immediately obvious, and required mirroring someone elses moves. Now I could literally do it blindfolded though. I do 90% of it by feel anyway.

Seriousgirl,

I used to always wait a while before asking a question, and tried to do it myself. SOMETIMES I actually came up with a better way! I was always reluctant to raise my hand, etc... but would ask for help. USUALLY I just find another way anyway.

Steve

Last edited by SteveK on 24 Mar 2007, 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think understanding something like this is fair enough!

Or if someone has another interesting story, please let me know!

Self help skills aren't just physical skills like brushing your teeth. It is the ability to navigate life independently, anticipating and solving problems. Our lack of age-appropriate self help skills often don't become apparent until middle or high school when we're really struggling or sometimes hopelessly lost.

Asking for help is central to the issue because by the time a child is 2, they are constantly asking both their peers and their parents for help in solving a problem or getting what they need.

Really?