Trying to talk normally to NTs

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Is it ever hard with people who know you have Aspergers, when you try to talk normally with them and they go out of their way to find something "weird" about things you say. I have a cousin and a lot of times when I try to talk to him, he manages to make snippy rude remarks, even when what I say adds something to the conversation. As a rule, I try to just not talk to him any more than I have to.

I've had that happen when people didn't have the label told but intuitively they knew

I agree it's better not spend too much time with these people.

People who do this are lacking manners, whether they are NT and you are AS or not.

How can I be expected to act and talk normally if people (intentionally or not) make it harder for me to engage socially? I might be better to make a clean break from people who know me now.

We may call it bad manners, but I don't think the NT's do. Maybe I'm not understanding what you're meaning by "manners." But it seems to me, based on what I've learned from olympiadis on this forum about social hierarchy, that there is an ingrained process which humans, more specifically NT humans, use to increase their status in the hierarchy.

What we see as their bad manners is really just their natural self-serving response to an ingrained psychological construct of hierarchy.

They seek to include or exclude people, whether covertly through slighting dialogue, or overtly by outright ridicule, and both are NT tools of hierarchy-seeking.

While the outright ridicule may be perceived as bad manners, the more covert means of crafting dialogue to draw support toward themselves in order to surreptitiously ostracize another is actually fairly common and seems to be viewed as normal discourse. At least I've rarely seen people called out on the surreptitious type of attack.

Dealing with it seems to require knowing how to play their game, because just calling them on it makes you look paranoid because no one else is processing the manipulation consciously. You might as well scream out objections about sparkly unicorns flying around the room. Once you know that everyone else can see the flying unicorns, then it may be safe to address the maltreatment. But even then, people who can see the unicorns are more likely not to admit it, because doing so may risk lowering their place in the hierarchy if no one else in the group is on board with revealing that they can see them, too.

I've started learning tools to combat this verbal marginalizing. But it's been something I've had to first learn to recognize as it's happening, and then create some type of response in the moment that would not be perceived as an over-reaction.

I have family members who do this too (but I don't think any of them are NT). They do it more/worse when we are together as a group, and less so when I'm with one of them individually.

Do you have other family members who act this way too? It might be a sign of a dysfunctional family dynamic. Younger family members usually pick up these habits from someone older.




Any tips on how to respond? I feel like I've had to carefully cultivate the "non-over-reaction" my entire life to avoid being perceived as, well, over-reacting.

Yeah, I think he gets it from his dad. The sad thing is that when he's around, a younger cousin is rude to impress him.

If somebody tried to sass me like that, I wouldn't have any more to do with them. I don't hang around with people who do me more harm than good. Better to be alone than share with somebody who keeps insulting me.

This "normal hierarchical behaviour" theory might be correct, but the explanation makes no difference to the options for dealing with it, as far as I can see. In my book it's just bad behaviour. I suppose it could be argued that it's so common that there won't be many people left if you reject everybody who's like that, but there's plenty of time to find a few of the many people (which includes a lot of NTs) who don't buy into whatever crappy philosophy it is that advocates being so aggressive.

I was accused by my family of over-reacting a lot. The first step I made toward better interactions was that I had to realize that people actually weren't all that concerned about the impact of their words on me except as it would be of benefit to them. The flaw in my process was thinking that they would be receptive to my trying to evoke better treatment from them. The over-reaction was coming from my thinking it would help to display the degree of hurt their actions were causing. Maybe that helps others; it didn't help me. I had to stop being so emotionally invested in them hearing me. It doesn't mean I stop wanting that, but I'm not so invested in forcing that to happen.

Feel free to PM me if there's something specific you're wondering about.

Have the same experience with AS families, and imagine this to happen often in AS families. It is partly a form of auto-aggression and quite common: people cant stand, if they see autistic traits in someone who has them more than themselves. It is mostly an unconscious process.

So what makes you think that your cousin and uncle are not on the spectrum? After all they are members of your family. Would you say that your Asperger comes rather from the other side of your family or that it has no genetic factor at all?

Thank you. This has been my thought process as well, not just with family but other situations also. I thought if I showed people how upset I am, they would change their behavior. (when I write that down, I realize how completely futile it is, and I'm pretty sure I've had this realization before, but nevertheless I forget and keep trying the same thing).

I've also thought in some situations, if I did the same thing back to someone they would realize how much it was bothering me...like if I sniped back at someone, I thought it would get them to realize how rude they were being, so they would leave me alone. But instead they would act like they enjoy it if I fought back, which made no sense to me. Like it's just a game to them.



Yeah, I definitely see that going on in my family...to be honest I feel that way myself sometimes too. Some of those traits really irritate me, even if I know I have the same traits myself.

Yep. NT's crave emotion and when you give them a reaction, they have no reason to stop and every reason to continue.

Something that explained another aspect of it for me was a quote in the movie "Imitation Game" about codebreaker Alan Turing.

At one point in the movie (around 24:48), there's a depiction of schoolchildren nailing Alan under the floorboards of the schoolroom. He's obviously being traumatized by it but the other kids are having a great time doing it. The voice-over says "Do you know why people like violence? It is because it feels good. Humans find violence deeply satisfying. But remove the satisfaction and the act becomes hollow." Alan becomes silent and that is when the bullies leave.

By this standard, I'm not human since I don't find violence satisfying. But it does imply that it is more common for humans to enjoy it than to not. I guess that helps explain why so many people can sit and watch boxing matches and actually enjoy it. Or enjoy tormenting others and making their lives miserable.

Another way of dealing with it is the way Charles De Mer dealt with Roy Stalin's teasing in "Better Off Dead" at 3:12 here: https://youtu.be/-HCgtKFJVd8

What both responses have in common is that they defuse the situation by removing the emotional reward of seeing the intended victim in pain. This seems to be essential.

I think that may depend on how both people feel about it psychologically/emotionally. I like boxing - I enjoy the technical side of it, the skill, the physical prowess. But only because it's given that both combatants accept and are fine with this. Often, boxers will congratulate each other after the match, because it was a good fight and their opponent gave them a good challenge. Because despite being repeatedly kicked, punched, choked and wrestled, they enjoyed the exercise. Because there is no maliciousness in it. If there was any nastiness about it I wouldn't like it - if it was just some guy beating another guy for no reason and hurting someone without consent, that's something else entirely. But I'm dealing with this at the moment with family - I really dislike unpleasantness. Maybe I'm naive but I prefer to be happy, talk about things that are interesting or that I like, or what I'm doing and why, but I'm dealing with someone who LIKES hate and complaining and conflict. I keep trying to make things better for them, but I don't realise that my attempt to make things happy for them is taking away what DOES make them happy. They want to be miserable. Incomprehensible.
To the OP, maybe this person is just like this, and thrives on nastiness and aggression? I'd agree - there's no purpose to associating with people like this. Giving them what they want just makes things unpleasant for you, and they're getting their kicks at your expense.

I agree, bullies are usually trying to get a rise out of their victims. I think retaliation is often more effective if it's done without showing any emotion.

It happens PROBABLY NOT because "they know you have aspergers", but because you have a reputation for being a wierdo. You act wierd to folks because you have aspergers, but its probably not the aspergers label that causes folks to do that. Its the symptoms of aspergers (social deficits) that cause it.

Occasionally Ive gotten this years ago- like in one highschool class, but not in others. Like in some class you've fallen into the role of being the person who gets dumped on so particular individuals will look for wierdness in everything you say. But his all would happen DECADES before 1994 (the year that aspergers got recognized outside of Austria).

great post
The other annoying thing is when I dont have the correct emotion/reaction to a certain event they will say im rude, but then they will act rude a few minutes later..