they keep telling I have undifferentiated Schizophrenia.WTF!

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omid
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19 May 2015, 4:50 am

Tried to get myself diagnosed with AS at a supposedly very good place AGAIN.
buttomline:
- I'm supposed to have "undifferentiated Schizophrenia" (because my record says so)
- I do not have Asperger's, based on the doc's impression of my talking and behavior and whatever.
- Asperger's specific tests can't be done because I'm on antipsychotics, These could affect the results of cognitive and whatever tests and render test results useless.
- The Antipsychotics can't be withdrawn to do the testes because I have undifferentieted Schizophrenia.

Ok. I totally don't know what to do anymore. I read books on Schizophrenia in the past. Biographies. Hard to read medical books. anything. They don't make any sense in my case. But whenever I watch interviews about AS I want to cry because they are telling my life story. I totally can't read any book on AS because it's all my problems and life story and affect me very negatively because I relate to them too much.

Maybe I'm schizophrenic and my god damn delusion is THAT I BELIEVE I HAVE ASPERGER'S? that's the ONLY scenario that would make sense! Or I have Asperger's and these docs are full of s**t.

The thing is, everyone is saying that I have UNDIFFERENTIATED Schizophrenia. and frankly I'm wondering whether undiff. Schiz. has ANYTHING to do with real Schiz. because I have never had a delusion or hallucination or thinking disorder unless I was on an almost overdose of antidepressants (just thinking disorder in this case).
So WTF is this undiff. Schiz.?

Cheerz
Omid


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kicker
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19 May 2015, 11:00 am

Quote:
So WTF is undiff schiz?


Undifferentiated Schizophrenia is usually given as a diagnosis when people show symptoms of schizophrenia that have yet to be severe enough to be classified into a subtype. (Think of it as a catch all for the schizophrenia spectrum.)

The symptoms presented fluctuate at different points in time resulting in an uncertainty of the actual subtype or they remain constant, but never increase in severity enough to define. It's used as a diagnosis when there has been a marked and established slow progression of the symptoms WITHOUT a history of hallucinations, delusions, or psychotic episode.

Symptom can include:

-Social withdrawal

-Depersonalization (sense of being in a dreamlike state)

-Loss of appetite

-Poor hygiene

-Disorganized speech

-Over/under reaction to things (unprovoked angry outbursts/ apathy)

-Flat affect (show little or no emotion)

-Lack of personality

-Lack of Motivation

-Lack of interests (like a couch potato only interested in watching TV or playing video games all day everyday different from having a "special" interest in those. Difference being that the former will only say they like doing it all day and not share more than that without intensive prodding while the later will have intense knowledge of the "parts" and want to express that knowledge with or without being asked.

-Odd movement

-Disdain for others (feeling/thinking that others are unworthy of you usually a group of people rather than an individual) Example: Disdain for all food service workers/homeless/doctors/bus drivers etc without taking into account individuals as in "An individual bus driver didn't stop where I asked so ALL bus drivers are stupid and deserve to be treated as such. If they were smart they wouldn't be bus drivers."


This isn't an all inclusive list. There are symptoms that could be construed as being ASD related and visa versa. The main difference between the two is ASD symptoms are present from birth, while schizophrenia (any type) has either a sudden onset (psychotic episode) or a gradual onset usually first appearing in mid-late teens through early adulthood (20-25ish)

Hopefully that helps answer your question.



Sweetleaf
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19 May 2015, 11:29 am

Perhaps the undifferentiated Schizophrenia diagnoses needs reviewing...are you sure this place is very good for diagnosing aspergers? If they where I'd think they'd be willing to review an old diagnoses to determine if it still fits...it is strange you'd be on anti-psychotics if you haven't had any major hallucinations or delusions since that is what they are for. Based on my limited knowledge of schizophrenia...the undifferentiated type would likely be rather mild and come with more 'negative' than 'positive' symptoms, meaning more flat affect(like having kind of monotone voice without a ton of expression), executive functioning difficulties, trouble with motivation, lack of interest that is what 'negative symptoms' refers to. As for positive symptoms that would be hallucinations, delusions and stuff like that....which would make anti-psychotics more appropriate.

I personally would look into having the schizophrenia as well as medication reviewed, if you can find somewhere willing to do that...maybe aspergers does fit better, a lot of the negative schizophrenia symptoms overlap with autism/aspergers symptoms. So misdiagnoses of some form of schizophrenia is very possible when its really autism. If you've had all the autism symptoms ever since you can remember that also decreases the chances of schizophrenia since any form of it typically wont develop at least till late teens.

But yeah anti-psychotics can have rather nasty side effects and really should only be used if and when completely necessary...not because a single psychiatrist a few years back when less was known about autism gave a non-specific schizophrenia diagnoses out of not knowing where else to stick you which is what it sounds like they did.


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cavernio
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19 May 2015, 11:29 am

The doctors are falling prey to (and they always do, sadly) confirmation bias if they will not even consider another possibility for you.


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cavernio
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19 May 2015, 11:33 am

Ah, at the same time, there's recent stuff about catching schizophrenia early so that you can medicate early because if you DO have schizophrenia, the prognosis becomes much better for you to start medicating BEFORE a psychotic break happens.

Even then, I find it odd that you have unequivocally been medicated before having any sort of psychosis, I was under the impression that to actually DO that is still not what most doctors do.



How long have you had your symptoms? This seems incredibly important for any AS diagnosis.


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umfum
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19 May 2015, 11:36 am

omid wrote:
Tried to get myself diagnosed with AS at a supposedly very good place AGAIN.
buttomline:
- I'm supposed to have "undifferentiated Schizophrenia" (because my record says so)
- I do not have Asperger's, based on the doc's impression of my talking and behavior and whatever.
- Asperger's specific tests can't be done because I'm on antipsychotics, These could affect the results of cognitive and whatever tests and render test results useless.
- The Antipsychotics can't be withdrawn to do the testes because I have undifferentieted Schizophrenia.

Ok. I totally don't know what to do anymore. I read books on Schizophrenia in the past. Biographies. Hard to read medical books. anything. They don't make any sense in my case. But whenever I watch interviews about AS I want to cry because they are telling my life story. I totally can't read any book on AS because it's all my problems and life story and affect me very negatively because I relate to them too much.

Maybe I'm schizophrenic and my god damn delusion is THAT I BELIEVE I HAVE ASPERGER'S? that's the ONLY scenario that would make sense! Or I have Asperger's and these docs are full of s**t.

The thing is, everyone is saying that I have UNDIFFERENTIATED Schizophrenia. and frankly I'm wondering whether undiff. Schiz. has ANYTHING to do with real Schiz. because I have never had a delusion or hallucination or thinking disorder unless I was on an almost overdose of antidepressants (just thinking disorder in this case).
So WTF is this undiff. Schiz.?

Cheerz
Omid


I can't help, but I've met someone else in a similar situation before: clearly autistic, but because she has a schizophrenia misdiagnosis on her medical record, doctors refuse to acknowledge anything else. It is very bizarre indeed. It does seem, from what you have written, that you are a bit stuck.

How many times have you tried to get diagnosed with ASD?

When did you find out about ASD?

When were you diagnosed with undifferentiated schizophrenia?

What anti-psychotics are you on, and what dosage?



cavernio
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19 May 2015, 11:45 am

What you can do if long-term is OK, go off your antipsychotics for a few years, don't go back on antidepressants since they helped get you the schizi diagnosis in the first place, and you'll not have a psychotic break so they will have to reassess your diagnosis.

Yeah, ok, so not helpful for right now :-/


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19 May 2015, 11:57 am

I got mis-diagnosed as schizophrenic too, but luckily in my case that was handy because it was very easy to get on Disability for schizophrenia as opposed to having ASD which is uncertain if they will let you get on Disability.

Anyway I'm not sure why you are taking antipsychotic medications if you've never had problems with delusional thinking or hallucinations. Why don't you just stop taking them if you're sure you have never been psychotic?



umfum
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19 May 2015, 12:08 pm

Regarding anti-psychotics, I do not know which one the OP is on, but I myself am on anti-psychotics as I was diagnosed with Bi-polar Disorder two years ago. I think that this could be a misdiagnosis, but it is very hard to withdraw from anti-psychotics, I know that from personal experience. It is not very easy to get off such drugs. The withdrawal symptoms are terrible as one develops physical as well as psychological dependence on them. It is very easy to say, as I wish for nothing more than to get off the anti-psychotics, but I feel totally stuck due to how dependent my brain is on them after two years of consumption. Just the other side of that business.



omid
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19 May 2015, 12:11 pm

Well the description kicker wrote fits me actually quite well. Hell, maybe I have it. the underactiveness and motivation and such fits really well

But i first went on AP's for bipolarish tendencies. not psychosis. and the supposed psychosis came later as I was ON Ap's. weird.

I was diagnosed with asperger's in 2005. but there are 2 kind of diagnoses in Germany. suspected diagnosis and regular diagnosis. both my Asperger's diagnosis and undiff. Schiz. diagnosis are suspected diagnoses. At the time I got diagnosed with AS I was not on any meds but Tiapride for tics that I got prescribed 2 weeks before the diagnosis. And I wasn't on any major meds for any long time for many years after that.
I'm wondering whether the psychosis stuff or rather their diagnosis started at the time I started taking AP's for rapid cycling bipolar.

Right now I'm in the middle of switching from 20mg of zyprexa to 300 mg of seroquel XR. so I'm on BOTH right now but I'm supposed to be on either one not both. and they are not doing anything but marginally mellowing my emotions.


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19 May 2015, 1:04 pm

umfum wrote:
Regarding anti-psychotics, I do not know which one the OP is on, but I myself am on anti-psychotics as I was diagnosed with Bi-polar Disorder two years ago. I think that this could be a misdiagnosis, but it is very hard to withdraw from anti-psychotics, I know that from personal experience. It is not very easy to get off such drugs. The withdrawal symptoms are terrible as one develops physical as well as psychological dependence on them. It is very easy to say, as I wish for nothing more than to get off the anti-psychotics, but I feel totally stuck due to how dependent my brain is on them after two years of consumption. Just the other side of that business.


How long does it typically take to get that dependent? I was taking one for a while to try and help my depression(I guess sometimes they can have anti-depressant properties, and I wasn't responding normally or well to more typical anti-depressants)...anyways it just made me feel really numb and apathetic and I was able to just quit and it wasn't hard for me. But it was probably only a couple months I took it pretty sure it was zyprexa or a generic of that.

Also though for medications that are hard to come off of, tapering can be a useful approach...like gradually decreasing the dosage...though I couldn't say it wouldn't be difficult at all.


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omid
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19 May 2015, 3:08 pm

MollyTroubletail wrote:
Anyway I'm not sure why you are taking antipsychotic medications if you've never had problems with delusional thinking or hallucinations. Why don't you just stop taking them if you're sure you have never been psychotic?


I do not have problems with delusions and hallucinations. but I have bad agitation and extreme irritability if I don't take them (either because I'm ill and am generally Irritable/agitated or because I'm addicted to this stuff) so I can't stop taking them. Also I possibly have bipolar. And in germany no doc would prescribe you Benzos. they even prescripe Antipsychotics to other people with agitation and restlessnes or agression who clearly do not have psychosis. Volume and such have the same place as vicodin and codein elsewhere here in Germany.


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19 May 2015, 3:44 pm

It is not true that undifferentiated schizophrenia is less severe than a specific schizophrenia subtype. Also, in the DSM, the subtypes of schizophrenia like paranoid, catatonic, disorganized, etc., have been removed because of lack of predictive value and consistency. All it means is that 1.) you meet the criteria for schizophrenia and 2.) the symptoms don't fit any specific subtype.

For paranoid schizophrenia, for example, there must be a predominance of delusions and hallucinations with much less prominent disorganized, catatonic, and negative symptoms.

Paranoid schizophrenia is usually less severe than other types, because the prominent symptoms, delusions and hallucinations, tend to respond well to antipsychotics. Having additional prominent symptoms, particularly prominent negative symptoms, indicate both NOT paranoid schizophrenia as well as a more severe course, as negative symptoms are much less responsive to treatment, tend to be constant, and tend to cause severe impairment when present.

Again, it appears that the mental health community is in the process of throwing the subtypes out due to a lack of predictive value.


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19 May 2015, 3:49 pm

I am sorry that you did not receive the diagnosis that you wanted. Keep shopping around, and you may find a more cooperative diagnostician than the ones you've had previously.



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19 May 2015, 4:00 pm

BTW, when the ICD-11 comes out, it is likely to also drop the terms undifferentiated, paranoid, etc. from the schizophrenia diagnosis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23674819


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19 May 2015, 4:05 pm

have you taken imaging exams like SPECT or PET?