I think my daughter has AS?

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Hello, I am a mommy to a 4.5 year old girl. We suspected asd a little over a year ago. My husband and I had an evaluation done and were surprised she did not get diagnosed. We also took her to our school district to test for developmental delays. We basically got a pat on the back and were told she just needed more "stimulation" and she would be fine. Her test scores on the Vineland were either at age range or above. Again, I was surprised.

For starters, here are the signs I see in her...some of them have resolved themselves but I always think they are important to mention...

When she was a baby she never played correctly with her toys. She loved them and played, just in her own way. Dolls were only dressed over and over again, there was hardly any imaginative play. Same with doll houses, she would arrange furniture all the time but no real play senarios. Now, at 4.5 she only likes toys with purpose like video games and the computer. She loves dres up but never pretends to be anything.

She has always been verbal, her first words were on time and she had a decent vocabualry but she only used one word phrases until 2.5. Echolalia kicked in at two and ended about six months later. She also went through a phase of calling herself "you" for about six months as well. At three she finally branched off to sentences but most of them were memorized. Now, she is spontanious but she still struggles. Her syntax and grammer are very poor. She has a lot of the same conversations and asks a lot of questions she knows the answers to. Her conversation skills are not as well as other kids her age, but, she can pass to the untrained eye and appear normal. She mostly talks at you, rather than with you. She LOVES to talk though. She is nonstop and not considered shy at all.

She has a repetitive movement when she is excited. Its like a whole body jolt. She rubs her thumbs over her fingers, both hands and distorts her face at the same time. It looks like she is also holding her breath. She started doing this at one and it has been going strong ever since. It happens every day, several times a day. We can redirect her without problems but we cannot get her to use a more socially acceptable movement. We tried for years, she will not budge.

Her memory, scary! She remembers everything. She has such good recall that half the time I dont know if she is right:) She can tell me things from when she was two. She remembers where her toys were bought and who bought them for her. She remembers events and can recall the littlest details, like the things we ate or what we were dressed in.

Other than that, she does have some positive signs...

Her eye contact is ok. At times I think it can be better but overall, it is considered good by the doctors who evaluated her and school district. She is in preschool now and her teacher tells me she uses excellent eye contact.

Socially, she seems alright. She enjoys kids and can play well with them. I do worry though about her repetitve conversations though. I think her odd speech issues will become more noticeable as she ages. But, for now, she has a group of friends at school she plays with and talks about all the time. She is always asking for them to come over. She loves the phone and has conversations with her Grandma and her Aunt all the time. With me, she is very affectionate. She likes to be with me ALL THE TIME and although I like it, I wonder if that is normal. She calls me her best friend. If she had her way, we would have our own room and my husband would have his own room:) She loves to rough house. She seems a little tom-boyish. She really enjoys being outside and loves to ride her bike or play soccer.

Educationally, she is on target. She is doing very well and can even do things that amaze me, like counting backwards from 18. She seems to pick up on things fast, like learning letters and sight words. She knows the labels to a lot of different stores...she likes shopping:)

Despite my worry about her language development, she has always scored high on her speech and language testing. Her receptive and expressive language have always scored well. So, she has the tools to talk, she just lacks the know how to get it out right.

I have had her in OT and her therapist dropped her. She said my daughter was a low needs patient and basically said I can give her trreatment at home. The only sensory issue is the stim. She is not senstitive to lights or touch or so on. Her coordination is also ok.

We also had her in speech and she is also no longer in that. Her therapist said that developmentally, she is on track. Her sentence length and vocab were fine, so, she suggested peer interaction to help her with pragmatics. We uped her school hours and see some improvement but I think she needs more help than that...

Well, sorry to ramble. I am just looking for some insight. As of today her only diagnosis is sensory dysfunction and developmental language disorder. Both so "mild" we are struggling to find her help. I know she is not a classic case of autism but the more I read of AS, the more I wonder...

She also seems to flying under the radar. I KNOW something is up but when she is at school or infront of a doctor she appears fine. They look at me and wonder why I worry... They are not spending enough time with her though. I spend ALL my time with her and see it, so, I know...

Does this sound like AS?

I don't know, but you might want to check out the parents' discussion forum on this site, rather than General Autism forum. You might find more answers there

It depends, it's hard to tell from your description. The fact that she is social in groups of peers, and enjoys it, seems non-AS to me. Do you want the diagnosis for your peace of mind, or so that she can get more services?

If she is starting kindergarten next year, keep a close eye on how she does socially.

She might have AS.... from what I've read, the social problems start to worsen around 4th grade.

Because of the timing, and only half the sentences at 3, and the social, it sounds like HFA to me. As for the sensory issues, keep in mind there probably are some. If so, you may not notice them until later.

Steve

As does not preclude wishing to socialise or making efforts to socialise etc...what it would mean though, is that she might be showing signs of making social errors...being too controlling, maybe, not engaging with play the same as the others...

She sounds AS alright. It was the same with me when I was little. I played with other kids my age and then at age 10 it started to get hard because their interests started to change so I went to the younger kids and played with them. By the time I was in 6th grade, I had no friends.
I say about my childhood, I was left behind. Meaning kids grew up in social skills and I didn't, they wanted to just hang out and talk. I found that very difficult, I wanted to play, they didn't. I still find it difficult but I can play but can't be in a social conversation. Now I prefer to be alone. Only time I join groups is with my relatives. But I don't socialize much. I interupt a lot when I do.


It could be possible your daughter has PDD but that be if she doesn't meet the AS criteria.

Of course... in fact I think most people with AS want to be social as much as NTs do. But what seemed non-AS was this description:



Of course the mom might not be objective, or might not have enough opportunity to see her child in action.

SteveK, IMO the language delay doesn't sound too severe, and alone doesn't necessarily indicate HFA. Two of my (non-AS) daughters didn't use sentences till age three (but they began producing single words on time).



She could simply have a speech impediment. The fact that the words began on time is significant to my eye-- most kids with autism-related speech delay won't even produce words on time. The formation of sentences and syntax could be a different issue altogether.

An alternate theory: there was a controvertial book published a while back about late talkers ,who were otherwise considered neurologically normal. "Late Talking Children" by Thomas Sowell. He postulates that there is a group of non-autistics who develop speech late and in a delayed fashion due to intense analytical activity in the brain. I thought this was what was going on with my son (who did not speak until age 5) until he started to show many clear sign of autism (head banging, rocking, inability to socialize well, etc).

So it is possible, if Sowell is right in any way, that her language delays are caused by her high analytical skills. The theory is that the analytical activity temporarily usurps the language areas of the brain during early childhood, only to later move back to its proper place and allow language function to continue, and eventually the child does develop normal speech and does not exhibit signs of autism.

To me, that still sounds like something on the autistic spectrum, but Sowell insisted it was something different.

Hi everyone and thank you for the responses.

I think that the one single "thing" to me is the stim. I may be wrong but doesnt that mean she has some form of pdd?

Without that, I wouldnt have thought about asd's. It was only when I read about them I noticed some other signs with her language development.

I dont know... I feel like "one of those moms" and trust me I hate it but, I worry and I cant help it.

Thanks again:)

It does sound like AS to me, and I think often times girls are overlooked when it comes to AS.

She definitely sounds more HFA (high functioning autistic) to me.

Hi again, I would love if I could get opinions on the differences between HFA and AS? I am having trouble figuring them out...

Also, if anyone knows, I would love to hear about other disorders that can mimic asd's. When my husband and I had her evaluated and she was denied the label, my husband refuses to listen to me anymore. He thinks I am overreacting...

I feel like maybe I am, but, deep down I am also convinced she is not developing in a typical way...

First off, welcome to WP from a 16 year old Aspie! I think it's important to realize that difference can be a gift and should be presented as a positive aspect (evident by my Avatar).

HFA and AS are very similar, but AS tends to be a more toned down version of HFA. I having AS can pass pretty easily as an eccentric NT.

I think your daughter is lovely to have those traits, and I noticed some 'negative' traits you listed are actually positive, such as being verbal and having an amazing memory.

On WP, the Parenting Forum can be the best place for you to go to.

I hope your daughter does well!

EDIT: But it seems like you already found it!

Hi there, you might find this article useful...it is about the differentiation between HFA and AS.

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1049&a=3337

I dont see a problem. I too managed just fine until my teens. There were issues before that, but it was somewhere in there that I noticably slipped. I also had a tight and small social environment as a toddler/child.

If she is pretty functional now, that is the time that you will have to prepare for. The teens are a time when social behavoiur ramps up rapidly, and complexity grows. The milestone after that is young adulthood, and thats really what escapes me in ways. I'm 34 and somewhere in my teens and twenties in many ways, but in others, I am calm and mature beyond my years.

She definitely sounds ASD. And like you said, her social errors may become more noticeable with age as peers begin to see them. This is what happened with me. Kindergarten went very well, I had a best friend (it also didn't help this best friend moved away before 1st grade) and generally interacted well with my classmates. Come 1st and 2nd grades, my inabilities and eccentricities became more obvious as my classmates began to realize I was different.

The difference between HFA and AS can often be indiscernable because there's a range, a spectrum, where both meet and everything gets blurry. It sounds like your daughter may be in that blurred area. Although I'd have to say, what with her language issues, I would lean more towards HFA. However, if you're coming up against brick walls with diagnositicians, you may have to settle for PDD-NOS until she gets a little older and can see if her situation changes and may get the dx of AS. Right now, given her age and blurry profile, you may have a hard time getting an AS dx. You may get told to wait a few years till things become clearer. (AS often gets dxed later than Autistic Disorder, most usually around 8 or later.)

My best recommendation is to find another diagnostician who's not connected with the school system, pay out of pocket (hopefully you can afford it), and get another opinion. Make sure to find someone who is very experienced in child ASDs and ESPECIALLY in GIRLS. Girls frequently have different, even subtler, ASD profiles than boys, so you really need to find a diagnostician who's had a good deal of experience diagnosing girls, too. And when searching and interviewing diagnosticians, be sure if they say they are experienced with girls to find out HOW experienced (i.e., get some general numbers) because I've met doctors who suddenly think they're experienced after reading a couple books and meeting one or two auties.

Good luck!

I have been thinking about this, and out of your whole description, the repetitive hand movement is what does sound unmistakably autistic (or possibly tourettes?). I have always noticed that people on the spectrum, even in pictures, hold their hands in a distorted way, sort of clawed/ hook shaped. It's one thing I'm self conscious about myself and I always hide my hands in pictures if I can, though it's not that pronounced in me. Does she contort her hands other than doing this rubbing thing? Do they ever not really look properly "at rest?"

I remember on that mtv special about 3 autistic guys, even the high functioning aspie had very distorted hand posture.

Anyway, just wanted to tell you that, as my other post played devil's advocate.