Which of the human universals are not autistic universals?

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rdos
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31 Mar 2007, 4:37 pm

Here is a list of the proposed human universals:
http://uwstudentweb.uwyo.edu/F/FENNERJ/TraitList.html

So, which of these do people here not see as an autistic universal?

Sedaka
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31 Mar 2007, 4:43 pm

i didnt like how it was organized and couldnt make myself read them all...

ill try again soon lol

not sure what "universal" means either

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Kosmonaut
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31 Mar 2007, 4:45 pm

I dont see anything on that list which i would call a human universal.

Strangely, the only human universal which comes to mind (death) is not on the list.
However it is mentioned in regard to sickness, this i also find to be illogical.

Kosmonaut
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31 Mar 2007, 4:49 pm

OK, i just read that they are about societies and nothing to do with individual human beings.
I would suggest they change the name.

Kosmonaut
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31 Mar 2007, 4:55 pm

I dont know of any solely autistic societies.
To talk of an 'autistic universal' for the purpose of comparison with this so-called 'human universal' would not seem to make much sense.
Not only because there are no such societies (which i know of, other than the fabled aspergia), but surely autistic individuals are already included in the societies studied for the human universal list.

Chimaera1618
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31 Mar 2007, 5:52 pm

Sedaka wrote:

i didnt like how it was organized and couldnt make myself read them all...

Same here. It's pretty obnoxious.

cruimh_shionnachain
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31 Mar 2007, 5:59 pm

A headline or two would make it much more clearer.

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mariiha
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01 Apr 2007, 12:10 am

cellogirl42 wrote:

A headline or two would make it much more clearer.

exactly...it doesn't explain anything; no captions

rdos
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01 Apr 2007, 1:39 am

I know the discriptions are very abbreviated and such. It is a list compiled from ethological study. These behaviors are supposed to be human universals, which means they should be part of every human being.

Here is my list of non-autistic behaviors (feel free to comment):

age statuses
body adornment
childhood fear of strangers
coalitions
collective identities
copulation normally conducted in privacy
corporate (perpetual) statuses
coyness display
daily routines
directions, giving of
dispresed groups
diurnality
division of labor by age
division of labor by sex
division of labor
envy
envy, symbolic means of coping with
ethnocentrism
etiquette
facial expression of contempt
females do more direct childcare
figurative speech
gossip
gift giving
government
groups that are not based on family
hairstyles
hygienic care
in-group distinguished from out-group
institutions (organized co-activities)
insulting
kin groups
kinship statuses
language employed to manipulate others
law (rights and obligations)
leaders
males dominate public/political realm
males more aggressive
males more prone to lethal violence
manipulate social relations
marriage
meal times
Oedipus complex
pronouns, minimum three persons
reciprocal exchanges (of labor, goods, or services)
reciprocity, negative (revenge, retaliation)
right-handedness as population norm
self distinguished from other
sex statuses
socialization includes toilet training
spear
statuses and roles
statuses, ascribed and achieved
statuses distinguished from individuals
statuses on other than sex, age or kinship bases
trade
turn-taking
visiting
weapons

poopylungstuffing
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01 Apr 2007, 2:40 am

rdos wrote:

I know the discriptions are very abbreviated and such. It is a list compiled from ethological study. These behaviors are supposed to be human universals, which means they should be part of every human being.

Here is my list of non-autistic behaviors (feel free to comment):

age statuses ??
body adornment..do clothes count?..or do they mean tattoos and such?
childhood fear of strangers..the lack of got me in lots od trouble
coalitions..??
collective identities..?? mods vs. rockers?
copulation normally conducted in privacy..I am afraid to copulate if i think anyone can hear us.
corporate (perpetual) statuses...?? (no comprendo)
coyness display...(as in modesty?)
daily routines...(aren;t aspies supposed to be driven by these?)
directions, giving of..(have a hard time)
dispresed groups..(no comprendo)
diurnality..(need to look up in dictionary)
division of labor by age..(?)
division of labor by sex..(??)
division of labor...(???)
envy...feel bad sometimes that I don;t look like a supermodel and have a genius I.Q., but I try to cope.
envy, symbolic means of coping with..(?)
ethnocentrism...nah!
etiquette..very bad at it
facial expression of contempt..perpetually..whether i mean it or not
females do more direct childcare..I like kids but dont;t have any
figurative speech..sometimes
gossip...sometimes...not too much though
gift giving..often the only time I can relate to people..but in formal settings often not great at it.
government...Anarchy!!
groups that are not based on family...yep!
hairstyles..braids!
hygienic care..bad at it!
in-group distinguished from out-group...(sometimes)
institutions (organized co-activities)..

insulting..?
kin groups... :cry:

kinship statuses...

language employed to manipulate others... :evil:

law (rights and obligations)... :evil:

leaders... :evil:

males dominate public/political realm :evil:

males more aggressive... :evil:

males more prone to lethal violence :evil:

manipulate social relations :?:

marriage

meal times :oops:

Oedipus complex

pronouns, minimum three persons :?:

reciprocal exchanges (of labor, goods, or services) :arrow:

reciprocity, negative (revenge, retaliation) :idea:

right-handedness as population norm

self distinguished from other

sex statuses :oops:

socialization includes toilet training

spear

statuses and roles

statuses, ascribed and achieved

statuses distinguished from individuals :roll:

statuses on other than sex, age or kinship bases :?:

trade

turn-taking

visiting

weapons

mariiha
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01 Apr 2007, 2:50 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: thank you poopylungstocking for the captions! That was hilarious!! ! :wink:

rdos
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01 Apr 2007, 3:01 am

Kosmonaut wrote:

Not only because there are no such societies (which i know of, other than the fabled aspergia), but surely autistic individuals are already included in the societies studied for the human universal list.

No, they are not. It is very obvious that the people that compiled this list haven't been studying autistics because if they had some of the "universals" would not be there. These people instead ignore the autistic differences because they think we are diseased.

Kosmonaut
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01 Apr 2007, 4:22 am

rdos wrote:

These behaviors are supposed to be human universals, which means they should be part of every human being.

According to the website "These are absolute universals, in that Brown believes that every known society (though not every person within each society) includes each trait." ( my italics)

These attributes are nothing to do with being a part of being a human being.

Kosmonaut
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01 Apr 2007, 4:25 am

rdos wrote:

Kosmonaut wrote:

These people cannot possibly have ignored autistic difference because they have not defined it.
They are looking at properties of tribes of people not individuals.
Individual difference is irrelevant to this study.

invivo
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01 Apr 2007, 4:50 am

reading this list makes me so aware of the fact that I am not human, only bodywise I am human.

rdos
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02 Apr 2007, 1:04 am

Kosmonaut wrote:

rdos wrote:

These behaviors are supposed to be human universals, which means they should be part of every human being.

Yes, that's their way of excluding "diseased" individuals that doesn't fit into the majority model. They could have studied autistic kids at the playground to get an idea if all of these really are universals, but they have chosen not to. Instead autistics are studied in laboratory settings with NT prefered stimuli, which really doesn't help in identifying the basis of autism.

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