Autism and gender

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I was told by a man who works for the 'national autistic society' over here in the UK in regards to why autism is overlooked so much in women is because......

"When a girl has a tantrum/meltdown people assume 'mental illness' or 'personality disorder' whereas if a male throws a tantrum people assume 'autism'


So why do you think people make those assumptions then?

Because it is so much easier to assume their is something WRONG WITH THEM as opposed to SOMETHING DIFFERENT ABOUT THEM. Two very different things, but the former is easier.
Also people think they can just shoo women away into a corner like with raising kids (I mean coercing them into having them to give them something to do to look normal) or keeping them at home where it is a personal problem. However, when a man "acts up" then it is an issue because you can't put him away (in a socially acceptable way) unless you put him in jail or something else for violent behavior. So it has to be dealt with a men are usually seen as more autistic- even though (I think this is the case anyway) that the numbers are probably close to an equal 50/50.
It's all around just general unpleasantness.

I don't really believe in 'autism'.

I think every human on this planet has some form of it personally

What do you mean you don't "believe" in it? It exists.
What is it exactly that you don't believe? The brain scans/ the obviously different developmental trajectories/personal stories/the people on this forum...

No, not every person has a form of autism. They can do things that seem autistic or react in similar ways, but the whole point is that it is permanent and PERVASIVE difference from the general population. Not ubiquitous. those are different.

Reasons can be varied.

I was not making meltdowns, maybe girls do it less often (if they do? never seen it!)? There are other signs (and earlier signs) than meltdowns but those signs are not enough well known.

I also think that AS/NT girls are living things generally more inside and tend to be more introvert than boys. Kind of apparent "Extreme introversion" typical to autism would then pass more unnoticed.

Maybe girls would also "manage their autism" differently
I have seen many girls Asperger spending a lot of energy on understanding social interactions, psychology, and communication often making it, a special interest.

Boys generally focus more on action and activities rather than games like dolls with "unwritten" rules.
So Aspergirls, learn very early that they need to understand something about unwritten rules, and then would cover earlier their social disability (which could then pass easier unnoticed).
I personally noticed "other girls were different" when i was 3 year old, i could not really "explain" it to my parents, i started to sit a bit apart, observe and try to understand, what the hell, they were doing with the dolls...


NT children learn social rules a lot by copying behaviours. Autists have trouble "copying behaviours", but their parents may help them with precise instructions.
I think (not sure at all) that girls could be (or/and expected to be) generally more obedient children than boys. Girls would henceforth have a less "strange behaviour".
I was very obedient. I was making efforts to behave perfectly how my parents told me, even when they were not present. This was my main concern, nearly as a hobby. I was perceived by adults most of the time "too serious, too helpful, too compliant" ...and occasionally suddenly..."very rude" (because of unexplained rules).
Maybe boys would generally less comply with their parents’ instructions, making their autism more obvious?

Just some ideas, from my experience, nothing sure, autism is not well understood, autists' girls even less as less diagnosed.

Get a bit informed please, before "thinking" things.

Most humans have autistic traits. That does mean it is autism.

There is no autism, there is no depression, there is no whatever because everybody has a form of it is the old way of thinking. In that way of thinking you were just or success or failure based largely on how hard you tried because after all everybody gets depressed and has difficulties, Stop whining.

And i believe autism is a disability.
Thats why my friend cant talk and will need help for the rest of her life.
Thats why my friend cannot handle change and has a meltdown and hurts himself.
Thats why my friend, whom has PDD-NOS only learned to speak when he was 4 years old.
Thats why myself and all my friends were bullied most of our lives.

If we, as an autistic community didn't have these problems, we wouldn't be diagnosed in the first place.

As for me, i can make art, my empathy level is higher than any NT, i can hear every note in a song. I can remember facts and moments decades old. I can recall the first time i heard a song, where i was, what i was doing and what year. I can watch any movie in my head.

However i cannot remember to give myself a meal, sometimes going days without eating, i loose focus on things easily and forget where i am, who people are and sometimes how to do simple tasks (today i just forgot how to grate cheese) i cannot tie my shoes. i had to drop out of school due to reoccurring meltdowns and suicidal attempts. I can't work. I cant read any facial expressions or body language. I become over focoused on things and neglect housework, body hygiene and sometimes i even forget to bring myself to the bathroom... Autism is very diabling, though people can learn to adapt its 24/7 work and no one can do it alone.

If it werent for my psychologist, my mom, my dad and my sister i wouldve died a long time ago.

I think the key part of it is that at least as young girls- girls get much harsher punishments for acting out at younger ages where they care about (all children in general) those things more. Girls are also much much more regulated and restricted in their play and are taught very early I'm talking 3/4 yrs old to be as cooperative as possible. Parents and adults place a premium on "good obedient cooperative little girls" whereas if a boy-child acts up they say "boys will be boys". However, if a girl were to do the same thing a boy does she usually gets punished more often, more quickly, and more harshly. This is just societal structures; they are in place for various reasons: I won't go into that.

Also as aspie girls are young- I for example had amassed a collection of about 350 stuffed animals as a kid- and if they are "girly" people usually don't care about it. It's all about being socially appropriate enough. I also liked to collect hot wheels (loved those!), pokemon cards and digimon cards and video games... however those were frowned upon and I got a LOT of heat for that- stuffed animals however were appropriately girlish so they let it slide.

I also liked spinning in big glittery princess dresses- not because I liked the dresses or princesses but because I found out if I spun around in dresses and said it was because "I'm a pretty princess like Cinderella" (which I did as echolalia because I was repeating what adults said to me) people would leave me alone to stim- AND it was socially appropriate. The thing about dolls I find not very many girls like them instinctively all of their own most have to be shown them and coxed to play with them sometimes while actively taking away other toys. They do this habitually. Also you hear lots of girls say (in my experience) oh, I didn't like them at first, but they just kept giving them to me and thats all I got so now I love them! Or I kind of liked them I guess but everyone gave them to me so I kept them. Or my friends had them so I played with them too. Or No, I didn't like them but that's what you are supposed to do.
In my case I would bury them in the backyard or just throw them in the trash- I really hated the things because they reminded me of all the social stuff I failed at ... boy did I hate them. Also they are boring as f**k if you already don't know how to play with them and rehearse your social skills. I think some aspie girls like them because they can use them as props to rehearse social situations- I don't know though. I've only ever met other females like me that hated them
I'm sure some girls liked them...
When I didn't actively destroy them I would line them up and stare at them and think- what the hell do I do with this thing now? Same thing with tea parties.

Also I got in so much trouble SO many times as a child for not understanding social rules that I made it my goal in life to understand- a study other people- it became a survival mechanism. Also, my parents, dismayed at how much I sucked at being a cute socially acceptable polite and obedient little girl, grilled me hard every. single. day. on how to be more social and appropriate in ways they never took pains to do with (not just my parents but other parental groups) their male children/family members. Basically they train girls earlier and harder to be appropriate. Boys kind of get away with it for longer.
It's like autistic girls get put through ABA boot-camp every day of their life 24/7 depending on how .... eager or obsessive their parents are. I'm sure some parents neglect to do this too. It depends though.

Then females are better at self-policing behavior in more seemingly "inclusive" ways.
Basically females bully (usually aspie) kids but while seeming cohesive. I can't think of any examples at the moment (maybe I don't want to...), but if a girl does something the other girls don't like they basically slowly psychologically torture the other person in a way that is NOT physical (that gets you in trouble and isn't "girlish") but still painful. I think we all know the pain of social rejection- well that is like the frontline tool-kit of female control/ manipulation. It hurts too- but people i.e. adults in power give it a pass because it isn't physical.

If you see two or more girls get into a PHYSICAL fight- you'll notice the adults practically fly to the rescue to break it up and punish all kids involved
I think the reason some girls get caught or whatever is just because they either weren't "trained" enough by their family or other girls in their vicinity and/or they have more severe symptoms.

Any other aspie females that can atest to this?

This is untrue and is a dangerous myth that is propogated all too often and leads to massive misunderstanding about the nature of the condition. Everybody has occasional peaks and troughs in mood, but depression is a VERY VERY debilitating illness. To say everybody gets depressed is a grandiose oversimplification. While it is 'normal' to expect people to struggle to deal with problems occasionally, it is not normal to stay in bed for 3 weeks, totally unable to get out of bed even to eat. Sadly for people who suffer from depression, this quickly becomes the norm. I received my AS diagnosis today having struggled with depression my entire life. Some years ago, I justified to myself the development of a heroin addiction as an acceptable means of dealing with the problems that depression caused me. Is this normal? No. Anything but. And to somebody who suffers the normal peaks and troughs of mood like everybody else, it seems outrageous. But to somebody who has TRULY struggled with REAL depression, it is very easy to understand why somebody would choose this path.

The point i am making is that depression and temporary reactive low mood as a result of outside influences and circumstances, are very different beasts. The same way that people who have 'normal' mood swings say they have bipolar, when what they have is a normality that I would give my right arm for and couldnt be further from bipolar if it was at the opposite side of the world.

Peace and love. x

Thank you! too many people say "well everyone gets depressed" to me when im going through depressive episodes, the only time when people take me seriously is after they see my cuts on my wrist of after a suicide attempt.

Gender assumptions affect the way that all female behaviours are labelled by entrenched patriarchial institutions such as psychiatry. (Particularly by psychiatry). This little essay discusses the phenomenon in regard to autistic women:

https://seventhvoice.wordpress.com/2014 ... ociety-is/

And the irony is they say WE'RE the ones that don't feel any empathy! What a backwards world we live in. In all honesty I've long since given up with other people. I just spend most days at home on my own. I only received my diagnosis yesterday. I had very little knowledge of the condition 24 hours ago and I have a feeling that just understanding what it is is going to help me improve my life a lot because truth be told, it's a shambles at the minute.

Probably social conditioning is the reason for categorizing males and females that way. If what that guy said is even correct.

As for believing in autism, there is a lot fictional autism as far as people diagnosing fictional movie and television characters with it. Even cartoon characters. Thus a serious disability gets trivialized.

Quoting because I think people misunderstood this... ASPartOfMe was pointing out the harshness of the 'old' way of thinking, not stating his own views.

@Unfortunate_Aspie_ - That is an interesting theory that most girls hate dolls, and only learn to like them because it's socially expected of them. I hated the darned things too!

EDIT: B19, thanks for that article. I have encountered those discriminatory attitudes all my life, to the point where I'm starting to believe them. It's hard when psychiatric professionals believe one thing, but the general public wants to believe something else, and you're forced to live in a world that vilifies you for something you didn't ask to be born with.