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Campin_Cat
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20 Aug 2015, 9:03 am

A few recent posts / threads, on this site (various forums), prompted me to start this discussion----and, prompted me, to a theory.....

I'm thinking that maybe ONE of the reasons why we, ASDers, feel the need to be right, all-the-time, is because we've been told, all-of-our-lives, that we're wrong; so, maybe, one of the reasons we study ourselves to death, is so that we WON'T be wrong. I'm thinking that, possibly, in actuality, more-often-than-not, people were telling us we were wrong, in the "you're not normal" sense, and taking people literally, as we do, we over-corrected, maybe.

I'm also thinking that, sometimes, when we're so adamant about pointing-out that others are wrong, is us, maybe, taking "it" out, on the wrong people ("it" being our anger toward the people who told us, we were wrong).

I'm also thinking that maybe one of the reasons we "need" OTHER people to be right, all-the-time----whether that means we think we can "pound" (not literally) "right" into their head, or we just think people shouldn't be going-around spouting anything, but facts----might be a sign that we are a bit of a "control freak". (I have another theory, as to why people are control freaks..... I'm thinking people want to control what's on the OUTSIDE, because they can't control what's on the INSIDE----with US, that would be when our brains / neurological systems won't act, the way we want them to.) I totally understand a feeling of "Well, if everybody only spoke fact, then I wouldn't have to exert so much energy, in correcting them"----but, again, that's, IMO, being a bit of a control-freak, because there are always, generally speaking, counter-facts; and, just because others have different facts, from ours, it doesn't make their facts wrong, it just makes them different----everybody espouses the facts that they believe, and not everybody is gonna believe the same facts.

Thoughts?





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kraftiekortie
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20 Aug 2015, 9:05 am

I would guess, based upon a bit of objective reflection, that I have at least some need to be "right."

I must accept that I'm not always "right," though. This realization would assist me in my learning.



b9
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20 Aug 2015, 9:07 am

i do not feel the "need" to be right because i always am right.



Ettina
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20 Aug 2015, 9:10 am

I think everyone feels the need to be right all-the-time. NTs are just better able to hide it.



Campin_Cat
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20 Aug 2015, 9:32 am

Ettina wrote:
I think everyone feels the need to be right all-the-time. NTs are just better able to hide it.

I don't feel the need to be right, all-the-time----I did, when I was a "kid" (20s and 30s); now, I just walk away, change the subject, go to another thread, or whatever. I'm thinking some people don't want to do that, though, because they're afraid the other person would take that, then, as them backing-down----when, in actuality, when someone ceases to carry-on a conversation, it doesn't always mean that they are doing-so, because the other person was RIGHT, and they just don't want to admit that; it might just be that they feel the conversation's not going anywhere.





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I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
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20 Aug 2015, 9:40 am

This is quite true for me. However, it seems to be more important in real life then when I'm online.


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gamerdad
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20 Aug 2015, 9:44 am

I think maybe it's a "perspective taking" thing. Like it's more difficult for use to conceptualize when there is information we're not seeing, or ways to analyze that information that we have not considered.

I found researching cognitive biases to be helpful in containing my need to be right. It's humbling to learn about how flawed our brains our and how limited individual perception can be. When I'm in an argument, I often still get caught up in the moment, but I find myself avoiding and staying out of arguments more often. I sit on the sidelines and try to absorb what I can. It's far easier for me to change my position on something if I haven't firmly committed to a position to begin with.



androbot01
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20 Aug 2015, 10:18 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
(I have another theory, as to why people are control freaks..... I'm thinking people want to control what's on the OUTSIDE, because they can't control what's on the INSIDE----with US, that would be when our brains / neurological systems won't act, the way we want them to.)

I agree with this theory.

gamerdad wrote:
It's humbling to learn about how flawed our brains our and how limited individual perception can be.

And kinda scary.

The more secure I feel about my identity, the less I am concerned with other's perceptions.



kraftiekortie
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20 Aug 2015, 10:21 am

I seek, at times, to control how others perceive me. I don't seek to control anybody else.



Campin_Cat
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20 Aug 2015, 10:50 am

gamerdad wrote:
I think maybe it's a "perspective taking" thing. Like it's more difficult for use to conceptualize when there is information we're not seeing, or ways to analyze that information that we have not considered.

AH----that's a really, REALLY good point!!

I found researching cognitive biases to be helpful in containing my need to be right. It's humbling to learn about how flawed our brains our and how limited individual perception can be. When I'm in an argument, I often still get caught up in the moment, but I find myself avoiding and staying out of arguments more often. I sit on the sidelines and try to absorb what I can. It's far easier for me to change my position on something if I haven't firmly committed to a position to begin with.

Yeah, I agree that it's humbling how flawed our brains are, and how limited our individual perception, can be.

I've also caught myself getting a bit caught-up in the moment, when reading posts, for instance----but, luckily, I've, more-often-than-not, caught myself, and just walked-away; and, luckily, my catching myself, happens much more quickly / sooner, than it used to.

Yeah, I'm able to avoid arguments, more-often, than I used to, as well. I often get the feeling, on here----and, in person, as well----that there are just some people who LOVE to argue. There was a thread about that, recently, and the OP said s/he often gets accused of arguing, when that is NOT their intention, at all (I used to be accused, all-the-time, of this). I'm thinking it just comes-down to us, maybe, knowing when / what battles, to pick----like, if someone says something, to which I know a counter-fact, but them believing whatever isn't going to hurt them, or someone else, I just let-it-go, usually.

Yeah, I sit on the sidelines, often, on here----I read arguments, and it seems CLEAR, to me, who's in the wrong; but, I figure if whomever they're arguing with, can't get it through their head, I'M not going to----besides, "wrong" is subjective.

I've also decided that arguing might be a form of competition, and I've just never been competitive----also, there seems to be alot of ego / insecurity / stubbornness / emotions / whatever, involved.....

Alot of threads / posts, on here, seem to be made PURELY out of emotion, and they either get SLAMMED, or totally ignored, it seems----if people don't understand / can't relate to the emotion, I guess.







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gamerdad
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20 Aug 2015, 11:02 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
I've also caught myself getting a bit caught-up in the moment, when reading posts, for instance----but, luckily, I've, more-often-than-not, caught myself, and just walked-away; and, luckily, my catching myself, happens much more quickly / sooner, than it used to.

Online arguments are actually a big problem for me. Once I enter an argument it's like I can't turn it off. Even if I walk away from the computer, my mind keeps going over it, sometimes for hours. This is sort of a pet peeve of mine in online autism communities. It makes it really hard to engage in some of the places where people disagree a lot (usually NT parents and autistic adults).

Quote:
There was a thread about that, recently, and the OP said s/he often gets accused of arguing, when that is NOT their intention, at all (I used to be accused, all-the-time, of this). I'm thinking it just comes-down to us, maybe, knowing when / what battles, to pick----like, if someone says something, to which I know a counter-fact, but them believing whatever isn't going to hurt them, or someone else, I just let-it-go, usually.

I get this a lot with my wife. If we're having a discussion about something, it's really difficult for me to let factual inaccuracies pass, even if they're not exactly relevant to the topic. One time I tried explaining to her that it feels like being asked baited questions. Like if someone asked, "why do you love babies and Hitler" and expected me to just respond to babies portion. I don't think she really understood what I was getting at though.



Campin_Cat
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20 Aug 2015, 11:05 am

androbot01 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
(I have another theory, as to why people are control freaks..... I'm thinking people want to control what's on the OUTSIDE, because they can't control what's on the INSIDE----with US, that would be when our brains / neurological systems won't act, the way we want them to.)

I agree with this theory.

Okay----I might be on the right track, with that, then----always learning.....

gamerdad wrote:
It's humbling to learn about how flawed our brains our and how limited individual perception can be.

And kinda scary.

I agree.

The more secure I feel about my identity, the less I am concerned with other's perceptions.

Yeah, that's me, TOO----it's taken forever-and-a-day, to get "here", though----and, I wouldn't be surprised if, when I'm 80, I look-back to now, and think: "LOL You didn't have a CLUE!", as I do, now, when I look-back on my 20 / 30 year-old self.



Campin_Cat
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20 Aug 2015, 11:44 am

gamerdad wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
I've also caught myself getting a bit caught-up in the moment, when reading posts, for instance----but, luckily, I've, more-often-than-not, caught myself, and just walked-away; and, luckily, my catching myself, happens much more quickly / sooner, than it used to.

Online arguments are actually a big problem for me. Once I enter an argument it's like I can't turn it off. Even if I walk away from the computer, my mind keeps going over it, sometimes for hours. This is sort of a pet peeve of mine in online autism communities. It makes it really hard to engage in some of the places where people disagree a lot (usually NT parents and autistic adults).

Yeah, I used to have this problem, when discussing things, in-PERSON. I experienced the same thing----not being able to let-it-go, for hours----DAYS, even, sometimes.

I wish I could tell you how I fixed it / stopped doing it, so that it might help you----but, all I know is, that's how I used to be, and now I'm not, so much, anymore. There's alot of factors, that plays-into it----I don't currently have a "proper" job (only temp jobs), so I've got more time to fix / work-on myself; I've got alot of issues, right now----issues that drain my energy, so I don't have any left-over, for arguing; priorities, etc., change.....


Campin_Cat wrote:
There was a thread about that, recently, and the OP said s/he often gets accused of arguing, when that is NOT their intention, at all (I used to be accused, all-the-time, of this). I'm thinking it just comes-down to us, maybe, knowing when / what battles, to pick----like, if someone says something, to which I know a counter-fact, but them believing whatever isn't going to hurt them, or someone else, I just let-it-go, usually.

I get this a lot with my wife. If we're having a discussion about something, it's really difficult for me to let factual inaccuracies pass, even if they're not exactly relevant to the topic.

Yeah, see..... That's what I was talking-about when I said, something like: "for every fact, there's a counter-fact, basically". Whatever facts we KNOW, are the ones that we seem to "need" to get-across----but, also like I said, we need to realize there's more than ONE fact, regarding whatever, usually; and, the one(s) we know may not be the right ones, in some one ELSE'S mind.

One time I tried explaining to her that it feels like being asked baited questions. Like if someone asked, "why do you love babies and Hitler" and expected me to just respond to babies portion. I don't think she really understood what I was getting at though.

Well, unfortunately, some women DO ask baited questions, on PURPOSE, and then get angry at men, if they don't give the "right" answer----that's SOOOO unfair!! I think they (ANYONE) should just come right out and ask what they're fishin'-for, instead of, seemingly, testing a man to see if he's learned anything since the LAST time they had the argument, or she told him how she thought he should act, or whatever.

Maybe she didn't understand it, cuz she didn't WANT to----and/or, because she just felt you were making excuses, for not seeing her side of "whatever", or that you were only pretending to not understand, so you wouldn't have to deal with whatever (I think we ALL have experienced THAT one [those accusations], too, Too, TOO many times!)




Edit: I left-out part of one of my thoughts.