Truth and Lies

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Has anyone had issues with telling truth and lies. A few years ago, i only just realised you are meant to tell the truth. Of course i knew i was meant to, and that lying may be immoral, but i literally woke up one day and truly understood i am meant to tell the truth because it is right for me! I had mostly just been trying to fit in up until then. I guess that is a teen thing, but it felt quite revelatory, i wonder if many other people have been hit by the notion quite so abruptly.
I still seem to act in ways, even to myself, that don't ring true though, i find it hard just to be open and direct. I'm trying to do this though, but i keep want to act like i am something different. Smarter, funnier, better than how i am, but it really only comes across wrong. Does anyone else do this?

I have always preferred truth and directness, but I am rarely open. I avoid lying, but there are a lot of things I just don't talk about at all.

I did just recently discover that some of the things I keep secret could help with making friendships. I was eating at Chick-fil-a and ran into someone I had met at an LGBT center, and his sister asked how he knew me. Normally I would have answered vaguely, but he told her where we met, and instead of running away screaming she thought it was interesting. If I told my family I had met a guy at an LGBT center, there'd be a big scene, so this was quite a surprise to me.

I've always been brutally honest, but then again, I am not diagnosed. I have heard many parents complain that their kids are becoming liars...and now that you mention it, it makes me wonder how much of that is the kid vs. society. You see, if you have society, teachers, therapists constantly telling a kid for years that they need to act in a way that is NOT themselves, i.e. not be honest for the sake of others, then isn't lying a learned behavior thanks to the therapies?

Yes, and as you say, not just therapies.

Parents claim they want children to be honest, but usually they really want the kids to say what they want to hear.

I think they want what they want to hear to be true.

Do you mean telling lies or lying to yourself?

I don't understand.

I always try and be honest me. People don't like it but I don't think you can always please everyone. You've got to do what is right by yourself. You can cause all kinds of problems for yourself if you are dishonest.

Sometimes in my life I have found that people actually come to me for my honesty, because they know I will tell the truth. so it does have its benefits.

I don't really say much though, so I would rather it be honest when I do speak.

I'm not certain whether it was something that happened over night though but I have had other epiphanies over the years that have enhanced my life.

I quite often am baffled about people's expectations. When they ask a polar question, most of them only qualify a "yes" or a "no" as an acceptable answer. Here are some of the most meaningful examples :
- "Do you love my new haircut?" The expected answer is yes.
- "Do you find me annoying?" The expected answer is no.
I must say that I abhor those questions. I usually refuse to answer them(even though not answering them does in some way). When someone truly wants to know how someone feels about a given subject, I suggest to ask an open question. My assumption is that people would be less likely to lie. Instead of already having defined possible answers, why not opening the question so that one could simply share its opinion?

If I’m interpreting you correctly, I had the same insight just this morning, and I’m 41 years old. The whole trying to fit in/passing as NT thing really wears you out!

To paraphrase a quote I heard somewhere, that which can be destroyed by the truth, should be. I feel like that's where I'm at in my life right now...

There have been some interesting studies about lying recently publicized.

Researchers have found lying begins early in life, about 2 years of age, when children learn to cry, not because they are uncomfortable, but because the want attention, etc. And (if I have my numbers correct) 80% of all children lie, in some manner, by the age of 4. The studies show most people will say they lie a very few times a day, but actually the number is much much greater.

Lying is almost an unconscious act for most people (especially NTs?). It is used frequently as a "social lubricant" much like "small talk", and is (with explanation) accepted in NT society.

The "explanation" I refer to would be something like: "I just had to lie. I just couldn't tell her the truth about her boyfriend" and other situations where lying is chosen as "least painful" rather than tell the truth. But it's questionable if the pain being avoided is that of the subject being lied to or the liar him/her self.

I try to tell the truth, without hurting others, as best I can. One alternative, which requires much practice, might be (skillfully) saying nothing.

I found, during a visit to Wikipedia their entry under "Lying" was quite informative, and pointed out aspects of lying I hadn't considered.

I just responded to this in another thread about lying but I'm really interested right now, because I am an adult and seem to be pathologically incapable of lying. It's very awkward. As I said it's not for any moral reasons, it's like it's a glitch, and I cannot say something I know to be untrue. If asked a direct question, I have two options - tell the truth or refuse to answer, which is sometimes a clear answer itself. That forces me to be extremely secretive and keep everything concealed, because I know if found out and questioned, I will not be able to lie about things I'd rather keep unsaid. This is really, really weird I'm just realising as it seems others lie all the time. It's normal. I just can't do it. As I said this seems to be just a weird thing with me rather than with autism as a 'norm,' as far as that term even applies.

Yes i don't think its autism as a norm, but obviously direct speaking is something that comes up with ASD a lot. I find it interesting that you feel it is impossible to lie, i can imagine that you would feel the need to work out situations where you would have to reveal something you don't want to and then avoid it. What positives do you find to not being able to lie, and is it just in person you can not lie? I assume you can do it in writing?

I do speak very directly, that's true. It's odd people seem to have this correlation between honest person = trustworthy, but in practice it doesn't, because I find myself incapable of keeping up other people's habitual lies. Even if I refuse to answer. For example, say person A tells me that he is really not that into his girlfriend anymore. I may speak to that girlfriend later and she may have got that vibe from the boyfriend herself, and ask me "does A still love me?" Even if I manage something diplomatic such as telling her I think she should ask him that, she still knows the answer is no, or I would simply have said yes. I would then anger person A when they interpret that as me telling his girlfriend he doesn't love her, betraying a confidence.
Even in writing it's not something I can really do. I remember when I went for military training, and the question came up "have you ever smoked marijuana." I indicated that I had, because well, I had. If so, you had to do this whole other workshop on the zero tolerance policy of drugs and it went in your application that you had tried drugs. When someone else found out that it was in fact once several years ago he asked me why the hell I wouldn't just tick no. No one would ever know, and I wouldn't have had to do the anti-drug spiel. But I couldn't, because I had smoked it once and the question was direct, requiring an answer. So whatever form it's in, it seems I can't just lie in any way without some major manoeuvring and justifying. As I said, awkward as hell.
Positives - I have found that if I'm giving someone a compliment, they know it to be sincere and absolutely factual from my point of view. I can't just be giving you empty flattery. If I say I think you look gorgeous in that dress, I mean it and there is no possibility of an ulterior motive. My mother often says "aww aren't you sweet," when I say something to that effect, to which I reply "no, just honest."

I think we, as aspies, have a tendency to be too honest. NTs often tell little white lies and expect others to do the same.

If the OP question is in regards to "passing as NT" in order to fit in, personally I resent that being called lying, or the suggestion that anyone who has felt the need to do this in life is a liar.

What about those of us who grew up in the time when nobody even KNEW we were on the spectrum, least of all ourselves? And we were forced and expected to fit into to "normal" ways of being, as it was the only way to survive in the world, even if it always slightly missed the normal mark?

I've had to try to strive to fit in for things that I didn't even know were more NT ways just to get to be a person who:

Finally moved out of my parents house
Managed to find work and hold down a job, albeit erratically
Managed to have some friends, some of them really good friendships that lasted
Managed to get to be independent, pay my own way in life
Managed to launch my own self employment business and get hired by people

If I had truly acted "myself" and stopped all pretense at "fitting in," trust me, none of these things would have happened, and god alone knows where the hell I would be right now -- probably institutionalized.

I'm self employed. When a potential client calls me and invites me to meet, if I come across as EXACTLY what I feel like in that moment, and if I even TELL them "Oh and hey, I'm autistic, that okay with you?" I wouldn't be hired.

And because I work in a "free market" line of work, they can't be sued for that -- it's their choice to say nothing at all but just never call me back again.

Some people might say -- well, you shouldn't want to deal with those people anyway. Which would leave me maybe finding ONE person in 500 who didn't turn me away for acting strange, having a meltdown when I truly felt like it, etc. And I wouldn't be making a living. And then I'd be homeless because I wouldn't be able to pay my rent.

In some circumstances, particularly work related ones, if you completely "act yourself" the consequences can lead to destitution, unless you find a relative to support you for the rest of your life. Get real.

Seriously, you can't tell people who don't "live truthfully" about things like autism or their instinctive behaviors that they are "liars" in their lives.

EVERYONE has to do SOME form of suppression of how they really feel at some moment or another. That's not lying, or "being NT" (like that's an insult), that's trying to maintain stability.

Stability of mood, stability of civilized behavior, stability of finances.....This isn't lying or "NT behavior" -- this is something ALL living things have to do do get by in the world, even the animal kingdom.

As for lying about plain old stuff, no, not inclined. I don't lie about things I've done or that happened to me. I don't lie about having a better car or home than I have. I don't lie about myself on the internet such as what I look like just because nobody can see. I don't lie about my successes OR my failures. I don't lie about something I think I'm really good at. I don't lie about something I know I'm really bad at. I don't lie for sympathy. I don't lie to impress. I don't lie when someone asks what their hair or clothes look like. I don't lie about stupid sh!t.

But if I have to "fake normal", fake "cheerful" to not piss off a client who is paying me to work and that pay is ensuring I keep my own roof over my head instead of having to live in a Salvation Army place, I'll never agree with you that this is wrong of me.

"Too?" So lying can be good and telling the truth bad? 1984?

Just because NTs do something doesn't make it right or even the best choice. A close look at our world today might easily convince someone of this. We can do better. There are other better ways to conduct social business.

"White?" The problem is: Who gets to decide the color of a lie? Not the recipient of the lie (unless the liar is found out). Researchers have found most people questioned will admit telling a few "white" lies each day, but they've found the actual number is much much higher.

Please remember, a lie may have a small effect on the liar, but the intent of a lie is to deceive others and the effect on others can be quite harmful in some instances. The telling of a lie causes someone's view of reality to be twisted ,sometimes permanently, sometimes seriously, depending on the lie. And often it seems a liar can and will lie and fool themselves, even for their entire lives. Even NTs will name some people as "uncontrolled" liars.

I'd suggest people stay away from lying as much as possible. Honesty is the best policy.