Nonautistic people know best?

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Sorry for the provocative thread title, I found it hard to compress my ideas into something short enough to fit.

I am wondering why non-autistic people would feel they have any business telling autistic people how to think about themselves or describe themselves?

I don't get people who are not autistic coming to an autism-focused community and telling people they don't agree with the idea of autistic identity, or the neurodiversity movement or how some people use functional labels, etc.

How is this different than white people going to a black community site and telling people how to think and express themselves? Or gentiles going to a Jewish community to do the same?

I don't understand why people would want to do this. It seems a little unethical and a little irrational.

It doesn't seem to me to matter if the non-autistic people doing this are neurodivergent, either. I don't feel that my autistic traits entitle me to tell bipolar people how to think about being bipolar. I don't see why it would work the other way.

I can see why nonautistic professionals in autism research or other related profession (social workers, therapists, etc.) might feel they had something to (carefully) contribute, but I doubt such people would be highly prescriptive in their comments and detail their views on correct and incorrect thinking.

I have seen this and wonder what it's about and how people feel about it.

Hmmm...I haven't really seen the things you're talking about...but then again I haven't seen every thread every written here, so, going off your overall question...

If these statements are made in response to a person specifically asking for help, then I can see NTs chiming in with what they will think will help. NTs may also wish to understand ASD family members or friends better and may chime in more because of that.

A percentage of the NT population is probably pretty uncomfortable with various ASD characteristics and my in fact be being invasive in insisting non-NTs act a certain way, so there may be that portion as well.

Overall, when I see input from NTs on this board, though, I see them as trying to help people who seem to want help or who have a question. A lot of negative experiences we have are based on not "acting" NT/not fitting in (everything from relationships to friendships to being able to get and hold down a job) so perhaps any given NT is trying to give advice on how to fit in, whether rightly or wrongly.

Telling others what to do isn't specific to "NTs v. ASD," there are people who will do that to any group, any individual. Busybodies exist.

I think it's nice to hear their point of view. I wish there were more active NTs. I like seeing outside opinions on a subject. I haven't seen any dictating though. If there is, they're more than likely troll posts. I think their advice and opinions are welcome. There's a lot of anti-NT attitude here and I just don't get it.

I don't know who has Aspergers, who is self diagnosed and who is NT around here and it matters not a jot to me either.

I don't see how anybody (no matter who they are) has any right to tell anyone how to go about their daily duties and how to live their lives.

The trouble is these days is...everybody's got a flippin opinion.

You can't fart without some one having an opinion on it.

I was not meaning just here, though I have seen it here, but in public discussions that include these ideas in multiple places.

The kind of statements I am thinking of are not responses to people asking for help, but opinions offered in discussion about identity, neurodiversity, autism as difference or disability, and the like.

I think there a many, many nonautistic and NT people who offer helpful tips based on experience or are trying to understand what their relatives are going through but those people aren't the same ones who decide they need to tell autistic people how to describe themselves and their autism.

Maybe it is just a few naturally intrusive busybodies. That's not an idea that occurred to me and I thank you for suggesting it.

I like to hear a diversity of perspectives on most subjects and like the diversity of members here, but on these issues of how autistic people should think of themselves and their issues, or what terms they should and should not use--it just seems weird.

I hear what you're saying, Adamantium. I feel that way pretty often when Autism Speaks tries to speak for Autistics. I also feel it when parents of Autistics shoot down what we have to say because they think it doesn't apply to their children.

If they claimed they were self diagnosed I'm sure people would be fine hearing their opinion, but if they say they're NT it's not?

I get where Adamantium is coming from. It's kinda like a family telling their gay relative that he can be straight if he just met the right woman. Every so often I hear people telling me to learn to think "gray" or turn off my black and white thinking like there's some switch I'd rather not flick. Easier said than done. There's a reason why some autistic kids wear helmets, and it's not just for looks. You try to change their mind about something and they go slamming head first into a wall. Yeah, they feel that strongly about their thoughts. Do nonautistic people know best? I don't think so.

Based on the relentless hostility discussion of self diagnosis generate, I'm pretty sure that a significant contingent of people would not be at all OK with self diagnosed people offering their views on these topics. In fact, I have recently read posts expressing exactly that.

But people who self-identify as NT's and make statements along the lines of "I'm not autistic, but autistic people shouldn't hold certain views about autism" very directly--that just seems bizarre to me.

I don't have a strong view about the cultural importance of whale hunting to the Inuit.

I'm not Inuit and it's not my thing. I don't think I have a reason to be part of that conversation, beyond saying something like, "however you guys work it out, it would be great if you did not drive any whale species to extinction, because we all share the planet." or something like that.

Well I can't really think of any NTs here that do this besides myself, so this is kind of how I feel about it:

I have autistic traits that I feel have impaired my quality of life as well as a friend with what was once severe autism. If I came here self-diagnosed I doubt anybody would know the difference.

I have had a few bad posts here and there but I don't think I've forced my ideas upon anybody, I think that I contribute as everybody else does. There are many autistic people that have shared similar views that I do and many that have argued far more viciously than I have for such issues.

For something like an autistic identity I think that is a good thing. I think that people misunderstand what I mean by a positive identity, or may have focused too much on a couple of my venting posts, such as me claiming to not understand why people can be attracted to a medical label after thinking about it. I have emotions and sometimes say irrational things but is it truly wrong to express oneself honestly at times? I genuinely do feel bad about many of my negative opinions and look to make them positive but I am also unwilling to act 'naked NT' (haha) and sugarcoat how I feel about every single thing. I have had a great many positive posts here, but I am more attracted to WP for the debate and freedom in the General Discussion than anything else.

I think it's also important to note that my views on self-diagnosis and identity have lightened up over time because of the discussions I've participated in at WP.

If I didn't have issues communicating I really wouldn't have arrived at WP in the first place. If the self-diagnosed are included here I believe those that are BAP or close to should be too.

I CBF writing any more for now but if my posts are really that bad then I would like it to be pointed out to me which ones and why.

Because they think you are unable to have a correct opinion because you are disabled and therefore it is thier dirty to help you understand the right way to think.

Norny I have noticed and appreciate that you have listened.

Oh yeah I get what you mean now.

Yes this has happened to me before but funnily enough it was before I got my diagnosis.

I've had "friends" who have literally turned their backs on me because I wouldn't live my life according to their standards.

In truth, at the time it wasn't that I was being stubborn, I just didn't understand what they were on about.

I can remember on a couple of occasions trying to explain that I felt different (I didn't know why of course) but they just didn't seem to want to listen to what I had to say because they were to full of their own self importance.

It actually made me go loopy in the end and I was diagnosed with schizotypal personallity disorder after a while but that was disputed and discounted after i got my diagnosis of AS. I started to have psychotic episodes and I believe it was (in some part) due to the pressure that was being put on me to be more "normal" by other peoples standards.

Yes it was a long dark winter for many years. It's not just a coincidence that my mental state has been fine since I got diagnosed and also since I don't have those people in my life anymore.

Sorry for rambling.

Please don't think this is personal to you at all.

You should see some of the discussions that have gone down in the Parents and In Depth Adult Discussions boards! You are not at all the only person who identifies as NT and joins in such discussions! And it happens all over the place elsewhere, too. I won't identify those places to keep well clear of TOS violations and Rules, but there are places out there with very strong advocacy for a kind of NT supremacy in these issues. Some of those places are primarily geared toward nonautisitc parents of autistic children, but they still get very agitated about what certain autisitc people call themselves and the ways they describe their autism.


I appreciate the effort that you are taking to work through these issues. From what you have said, I wouldn't think of you as NT but rather nonautistic neurodivergent--but I don't think it's right to be a language fascist so call yourself what you want

People are entitled to have offensive opinions, but they should expect to be blasted for it by more sensible people. That's how the world works, right?

I'm ok with nonautistic people saying their opinions on these issues, it's not offensive to me, I find idea of autistic people having monopoly on these issues weird.