Is it Possible for a NT to Exhibit AS Traits?

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The reason I ask this is because I feel like I might be a neurotypical, although I exhibit some traits of AS. I've called my autism diagnosis into question in a few other posts, but now I want to make it the main subject of this one.

I was given a diagnosis of PDD-NOS at an early age (sometime around 3 or 4, or possibly 6, I don't remember), which most people just translated from clinical jargon as Asperger's Syndrome. So, I've grown up with that diagnosis, for almost as long as I can remember (I might still have some vague, pre-diagnosis memories).

Some of the behaviors relating to the diagnosis that I exhibited at the time I was diagnosed were:

. Stimming (in the form of wrist flapping)
. Inappropriate social conduct (e.g., correcting kids reading out loud in school when they mispronounced words)
. Tantrums
. Extraordinary abilities in one particular area (perfect musical pitch, although that developed a bit later)

These have all gone away, for the most part (except the perfect pitch).

Some of what I would consider to be crucial elements that were either hardly there or non-existent altogether were:

. Echolalia (I actually considered an echolalic autistic classmate of mine in elementary school to be quite odd)
. Sensitivities to sight/sound/touch/etc.
. Cognitive deficits, or uneven skills
. Delayed language acquisition
. Difficulty understanding non-verbal cues
. Difficulty with figurative/abstract language

I was also a lot more social as a child and have only recently become increasingly withdrawn and reclusive.

So with all of that in mind, I wonder if being diagnosed at an early age may have influenced how I behaved as a child, teen, and now as a young adult. I wonder if I was brainwashed into believing that I was autistic, when in fact I may not be. So much of what autistic people do just seems so alien to me, and I feel like I have a little more in common with NTs, but I'm just too socially broken and I have too much anxiety to make contact with them.

I don't know how much context this gives or how much it helps, but my mother is a recovered alcoholic (she got sober when I was 17, and was drinking my whole life up until then), and she and my dad have been divorced since I was 3 (and my dad was never really a "father" to me, more like a "best friend"). So today my therapist asked me "Given all of that, how do you expect that you could have developed good social skills growing up?" I've mentioned my diagnosis to him as well, but he just seems to think that I'm an "odd intellectual" who can't relate to average people, and thus they think there's something wrong with me (and in turn I think so as well).

I know that there are a lot of autistic people who become aware of their autism later in life, and who for all intents and purposes act relatively normal for most of their life leading up to that point, so I wonder if I'm the exact opposite - someone who's been convinced all their life that they were autistic, but who's starting to become aware that he's not. Because if I am autistic, then I'm practically a few micrometers away from being non-autistic (if the spectrum is about a meter or so long in this scale).

There is unproperly (As yet) studied incidents of people losing/curing their ASD. There's a Nature of Things (canadian documentary show) about it, and there's also a member here who swore up and down that they cured their autism.

If you were exhibiting all those traits as a child as you listed, their diagnosis was probably accurate. You may have outgrown it by your gut flora getting back to something healthy.
You do, however, still exhibit social issues which are still a central tenet of ASDs. I find it most likely that you just don't perceive yourself as being abnormal when you are, but that's me being a jerk for saying that out loud.

Oh neat, I'll have to check that out. I've definitely heard of people conducting this sort of research before.

I don't necessarily think that's true. For example, many people - autistic and non-autistic alike - self-stimulate, but it's the type and reason that usually differs (and my stimming seemed to be incongruous with how and why most autistic people stim - for me it was because of excitement/elation, NOT over-stimulation as it is with most autistic people).

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Surely you don't believe in that crap about it being related to gastro-intestinal health issues. Or were you just being sarcastic?

HOW?! How is that a central tenet of ASDs? Are you suggesting that anybody who has poor social skills is autistic? Because the way I understand it, poor social skills is a result of some of the symptoms of ASD, not a symptom itself. It's like saying all sociopaths*, who have pretty poor social skills, are autistic. I'm confused now!

You're not being a jerk for saying that. I know for a fact that I'm abnormal, but that doesn't mean I'm autistic.

*here, sociopathy should NOT be confused with psychopathy - sociopathy is a disorder learned through often-times traumatic experiences, whereas psychopathy is genetic and part of how an individual's brain is wired.

Oh...I get it now. I watched the little one-and-a-half minute trailer thing for The Autism Enigma (from the Canadian documentary that you had mentioned), and you really weren't kidding. Well if the half-baked theory you subscribe to is true, I'm probably not autistic (and I would imagine that A LOT of people on this forum aren't either), otherwise it really is just bullsh*t - just like the vaccinations theory.

I have diagnosed celiac disease. When I eat gluten my emotions and mental faculties get messed up. A link between gut and brain is known and I have one, it seems quite possible. It's also what the documentary is about.




No, poor social skills are not a result of the symptoms of ASD, they are a symptom of ASD.

I never said it was the cause, but it's worth being studied. I don't know on what grounds you know it's BS, but it's not science, that's for sure.

Yeah, I got a little flustered - I apologize about that. It just seems like a personal attack on my humanity (and the humanity of others like me) when people like you tell me that it's all just related to "gut problems" or something else like that which just seems so nonsensical, and that somehow we need to be "cured" because we're "defective." And you're right, my grounds for dismissal weren't very scientific - they were based purely in emotion. I'm usually more open-minded than I've demonstrated, but I hate more than anything being put down by others (proven wrong - sure, but made to feel inferior and defective - I hate that).

Huh, maybe I was autistic, but no I'm not - I just lost my exposure to all (or most) of those chemicals and toxins early on. I wouldn't have remembered being exposed as a child (I couldn't have comprehended what it would mean for me back then), but I would think that it's gotten better now.

I don't know...I think I might just drop the whole thing and get on with my life. I've demonstrated that I can do pretty well out in "the real world" when I really just chin-up and apply myself wholeheartedly, so I shouldn't let a stupid diagnosis get in the way of that.

My psychologist put it like this, there are three main SYMPTOMS that NEED to be present for a diagnoses:

1. Social, emotional and Communication Issues
2. Sensory Sensitivities
3. Repetitive, Ritualistic or Obsessive Behaviour.

all these Symptoms are CRUCIAl, however traits can vary, a social communication difficulty can present many different traits, like inability to speak, trouble with back and forth conversation, difficulty expressing emotions, difficulty expressing needs.

So as an example, lets say we have two people.

Person A: Prefers not to socialize, feels anxious around people, Little to no eye contact, inability to accuratley read body language, resistance to being held or touched, often feels they do not know what to say or how to act around others, finds social interaction overwhelming, and finds relaxation in the comfort of their own home and takes part in hobbies such as movies, reading, music or research.

Person B: has a desire to be with people but often fails in maintaining a conversation, claims to have no issues with social interactions, body language seems awkward, fails to make eye contact, cannot handle long periods of social events, does not pick up on nonverbal and verbal social cues, overly friendly and trusting, often unintentionally rude or offensive.

you see, although it may SEEM like person A has autism, they actually dont, these are actually characteristics of Social Anxiety (Phobia). Anxiety can sometimes interfere with a persons ability to socialize affectively and a lot of these traits are due to a fear of embarrassment or being judged. Often times social anxiety can have a lot of other symptoms that can seem like its caused by other factors unrelated to the anxiety.

person B is actually common traits in a person with autism, many people with autism have NO idea they have issues using and understanding social rules. therefore it just seems like other people are doing something wrong and not their behaviour.

My point is it can be hard to fully evaluate yourself, especially if your on the spectrum (most people on the spectrum are shown to have poor self awareness)
i did not know i had these issues, but they were obvious to other people, When i was a kid, i didnt know i was suppose to look at people while talking, and more importantly i didnt know i didnt make eye contact at all, i also thought that everyone went through melt downs and shut downs. i thought every thought in pictures and i even thought EVERYONE loved sonic as much as i did, after my diagnoses my psychologist helped me understand myself.

i think if you suspect you have AS you should get evaluated, because sometimes your trait can be better explained by something else.

It is possible for your symptoms to get better over time. If they reach the subclinical level, where you're no longer impaired, that's residual autism/Asperger's. Haven't read the post really, so sorry if it's not relevant.

I dont have nerotypcal trait.
im nonnnne vvverballl

Last edited by wronngbong on 06 Dec 2015, 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Considering it's called the Autistic Spectrum, I'm a going to have to say yes.

I have a cousin who I thought was on the Autism spectrum. When he was a child he displayed a lot of AS traits. He had trouble making friends in school, had a fascination with electrical things, didn't like balloons popping or other loud noises, had high anxiety levels, would go completely non-verbal in a social gathering, had an awkward gait, and when he was with me alone he kept poking me and doing other odd things. And no it wasn't anything to do with his upbringing because his sister was a perfect example of NT. His mum even worried about him.

But then I also doubt about him having AS because when he got to a teenager he made some friends and had 2 of them sleep over, and done other things normal teenagers do, which was much more than I did. Now as an adult he's always doing things with mates. Right now he's in Spain with a mate. And his mates are NT. So maybe my cousin has always been NT with AS traits, mostly affecting him in childhood.

I think it is very possible for an NT to exhibit some AS traits because nothing in Asperber's is Asperger's exclusive. Everything we do NT's do to some degree as well. The difference is the degree and frequency of the traits for us cause us impairment in our daily lives. For example, everyone is sensitive to something. I am super sensitive to sounds and movement and lights and some touches. An NT might be sensitive to nails on a chalkboard. That is a sound sensitivity. But my sound sensitivities are severe and with such a variety of sounds and volumes of sounds that they prevent me from being about to function on a daily basis.

An NT might drum his fingers on his desk or tap his pencil when he is in deep concentration or nervous. But he might do it every now and then. I rock and do my other stims to help self regulate my neurological system. I also stim when I am anxious or relaxing. When I stim, there might not be a reason that is obvious to an outsider looking at me.

An NT might have a problem communicating but I have problems in communication that impair my ability to have normal conversations with people on a daily basis. I also don't pick up on social cues and body language unless they are very basic and obvious. I also don't know how to make my own body language say what people expect it to. My speech will also regress and deteriorate depending on stress to the point where I become nonverbal in some situations.

An NT might be able to concentrate on a project. I will hyperfocus on a special interest to the point where I won't eat or sleep or go to the bathroom. I will also sometimes even risk going to the bathroom on myself rather than break a routine I am doing. An NT might get annoyed if his routine is broken where sometimes it is impossible for me to break mine.

An NT might get exhausted after a big party. I get socially exhausted after a normal social event and where it might take an NT a few hours or a day to recover socially, it takes me weeks. An NT might get overwhelmed and have a meltdown every now and then. I might have a meltdown a few times a day from being overwhelmed by things an NT would not even notice.

So these are examples to show you that the actual things that happen to us are not exclusive to us. The difference is how severe those things are, how often to they happen to you, how much sensory stimuli does it take to set you off, and do these things impair your ability to function normally in your daily life? But even things like sensory looping are not exclusive to Autism. So it is very possible for NTs to show some traits. But they will be in much smaller proportions when compared to an Autistic and even though they might be annoying they won't really interfere with your ability to function in your daily life.

A big factor in determining if someone is Autistic is figuring out at what rate the brain receives stimuli and what rate it processes that stimuli that it receives. In Autistic people there is a huge difference between the two and that is one of the core reasons we have the problems we have. In my case, I receive information and stimuli in the 87th percentile but my brain processes that information at a speed which is consistent with the 30th percentile. That is a HUGE gap. So my brain gets bottlenecked and backlogged and it causes my brain to crash. An NT will not have that huge discrepancy between those two numbers. But that is one reason why so many areas of our lives are impaired.

And the gut flora thing is not BS. There are many things that can attack cells in the brain and affect a person's neurological responses, including certain microbes in the gut or environmental toxins, that can cause the brain to respond with Autistic type symptoms. So if you address those issues, the symptoms can be relieved. Neurotoxins are called neurotoxins because that is what they are and they affect the neurology when we come in contact with them.

Hope this helps.

I was severely speech-delayed--yet, when I started to talk, I'm became more Aspergian than classically autistic.

I used to vomit constantly before I spoke--less after I spoke.

If you read Elijah's Cup, you'll see many elements of my own development. He also became Aspergian after a classically autistic early childhood.

My symptoms have improved to the point where I'm sub clinical most of the time. I lead an independent existence and will retire from my job in 7 years. I still have my moments, though LOL.

There is a lot of overlap of traits/symptoms between different conditions, which present in an almost identical way. It's often virtually impossible, even for a clinician, to say what condition causes them without doing a full diagnosis. Some of the 'classic' autistic traits are also seen in people with ADHD, bi-polar disorder, BPD and various others. So we mustn't jump to conclusions.

It is common for NTs to have autistic traits.