Animal Vs Human communication
After apparently another failure in adult related life due to my communication "style" shall we call it, I had an encounter with a cat that made me think about communication.
I was walking down to the grocery store when there was a cat on the path. It had seen me before I saw it, so was staring at me when I noticed it. Its eyes were big and fixed on me, its body tense and still and standing on all fours, tail out.
Before I could think about that, my brain apparently registered this body language as caution or fear, the cat being unsure of what kind of human I was or what I was going to do, so it was readying itself to run were I to be a threat but hadn't quite decided on that yet.
I am not a threat, so I stopped walking when I saw the cat, so as not to scare it further by moving forward. I took my hands out of my pockets and held one out, making a soft tittering noise I have used with other cats to communicate friendly intent. The cat didn't move so I crouched down slowly and held out my hand. The cat's body relaxed, it meowed and walked toward me to smell my hand. Since it was comfortable with that I patted its body and it pushed its head and body against me, circling around me. I patted it for a few minutes before I moved on and it continued down the path.
Why is it that I was perfectly capable of understanding cat nonverbal communication and body language and it capable of understanding mine, so we could successfully communicate with each other? But apparently whenever a human comes into reference, I am always completely misunderstood and misunderstanding? I am able to do this with dogs and horses, too. Their communications have always seemed very clear to me. By contrast my failed human encounter interpreted by my demeanour an attitude I absolutely did not hold, and I was completely unaware that I was giving off the wrong impression. Why is human communication such a failure for autistics when we are obviously able to understand nonverbal and body language to a degree to communicate with animals?
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Alexithymia - 147 points.
Low-Verbal.
Why is it that I was perfectly capable of understanding cat nonverbal communication and body language and it capable of understanding mine, so we could successfully communicate with each other? But apparently whenever a human comes into reference, I am always completely misunderstood and misunderstanding? I am able to do this with dogs and horses, too. Their communications have always seemed very clear to me. By contrast my failed human encounter interpreted by my demeanour an attitude I absolutely did not hold, and I was completely unaware that I was giving off the wrong impression. Why is human communication such a failure for autistics when we are obviously able to understand nonverbal and body language to a degree to communicate with animals?
My opinion is that we humans live in an artificial environment and have created artificial verbal and non-verbal communication methods. Or maybe they are the original ones we used in a natural environment but were so specific to it that they no longer make sense. Either way, they are extremely subtle and they seem almost arbitrary - just look at how many different *unsupported* theories psychologists devise to explain them. Animal NV communication seems almost honest and straightforward in comparison, even when comparing seemingly opposite language such as dog vs cat belly exposure and the like.
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“For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.”
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ImAnAspie
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I have always been the same. I can naturally read animal's language but humans mostly elude me.
I have always attributed this to animals don't send mixed messages whereas humans do.
I also attribute this to if an animal doesn't like you, they don't pretend to (which is really the same as my first part).
Animals are also a lot more shy and weary of humans (for good reason). I've seen people, males, drive on the wrong side of the road just to try and run a cat over. That's why my opinion of most people is not very favorable.
I love animals (especially cats) and they have always loved me. When I was a kid, coming home from school, I had lots of strays follow me home.
Animals just seem to know I'm nice and kind hearted.
Humans think I'm strange because I'm ugly but animals don't know what human ugliness is. Some of the best looking people on the outside are the ugliest on the inside!
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Your Aspie score: 151 of 200
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Animal body language is extremely easy to learn and decipher and varies only a little from dog to dog or cat to cat or horse to horse. Not only that, but they don't use spoken language and they tend to be very obvious about say, happy or unhappy.
They're easy to connect with because they really ask so little of us. They don't want to have a long drawn out discussion of emotions or make us do anything we don't want to do. They just want a warm, dry place to sleep, good food, and some attention (throw the ball, or scratch behind the ears).
Other humans generally want much more from you when they try to communicate. And they are less obvious about it.
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RAADS-R: 192
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 135 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 49 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)
AQ: 44
Let me explain: I am not diagnosed nor am I "self-diagnosed," all I know are what my life experiences have been up to this point and a lot of it makes more sense when considered through the lens of autism and sensory processing issues.
ImAnAspie
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They're easy to connect with because they really ask so little of us. They don't want to have a long drawn out discussion of emotions or make us do anything we don't want to do. They just want a warm, dry place to sleep, good food, and some attention (throw the ball, or scratch behind the ears).
Other humans generally want much more from you when they try to communicate. And they are less obvious about it.
You've not stated in your profile
and you don't need to answer this
but
I feel Aspies/Auties (especially) like Temple Grandin have a closer emotional tie to animals and their emotional states.
Are you an Aspie/Autie?
If so, I'd be more inclined to believe you're on a closer emotional level to animals as I am and always have been.
It's innate with us.
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Your Aspie score: 151 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 60 of 200
Formally diagnosed in 2007.
Learn the simple joy of being satisfied with little, rather than always wanting more.
neilson_wheels
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Animal communication is usually quite obvious, if we had ears and tails and fur to signal our intentions and emotional state it would be easier to understand each other. Even Chimps have much more obvious non-verbal signals, for example they offer a hand to another's mouth to show deference, in others words 'I trust you enough not to bite me'. I'm glad we don't have to do things like that.
A complex brain enables/requires both complex verbal and complex non-verbal communication.
If so, I'd be more inclined to believe you're on a closer emotional level to animals as I am and always have been.
Yep. I don't know about emotional levels - the same as emotional connections? Because as far as I know I don't have emotional connections.
So, the general opinions above seem to reflect that human nonverbal communication and body language is subtle and complex, whereas animals are simple and more obvious?
Seems sensible, but humans have so many methods for this at their disposal, you'd think it would be at least as overt as an animal - we have body gestures, hand gestures, facial expression, eyeline, people even going so far as to say that what a person is wearing or the style they adopt is a form of nonverbal communication. All this sounds pretty comprehensive. Add that we are supposedly human too and thus should be able to better interpret and understand our own species than another, I don't know if it accounts for this wild disconnect with autistic people.
I have also had instances in my work of the past where obviously aggressive forms of human communication (such as a guy going for a syringe to stab me with in one instance) were totally missed by me. I wondered what my compatriot was worried about, when it was apparently obvious I was about to be stabbed in the face. But the subtle shift of a dog's body and the angle of its eyes is enough to tell me it will take my hand off if I come any closer.
I wonder if the directness of animal communications Vs the deceitfulness of humans (whether maliciously, deliberately or otherwise) might have some truth to it (no pun intended.)
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Alexithymia - 147 points.
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neilson_wheels
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The obvious displays by an animal translate to obvious displays by a human, for example a genuine, spontaneous smile or someone all 'in your face' with raised voice and clenched fists. The complex and subtle are undeciphered due to the disconnection. How can you fully understand a form of communication if you don't know the whole language?
The obvious displays by an animal translate to obvious displays by a human, for example a genuine, spontaneous smile or someone all 'in your face' with raised voice and clenched fists. The complex and subtle are undeciphered due to the disconnection. How can you fully understand a form of communication if you don't know the whole language?
I think this is key: many of us can pick up on the obvious signals from humans or animals, but not the more subtle or conflicting signals that humans sometimes give. I've taught myself to examine human facial expressions and body language consciously, but it's still confusing because many of the subtler signals have a similar look (e.g., annoyance and exhaustion), and sometimes people will subconsciously give off conflicting signals if they are trying to hide their feelings.
My mom did this a LOT: she'd sigh, pout her lips, tense her shoulders, and bang things around as she did housework. I interpreted this as "Mom is upset/angry?/hurt?" and ask her, "Mom, what's wrong?"
Mom would reply, "NOTHING" with a lot of tension in her voice.
I'd ask again, "Are you mad?"
"NO," Mom would reply, loudly.
I'd wait for awhile, getting more and more anxious as she continued to huff and puff and slam things around.
A half an hour later, she'd yell at me for whatever it was she had been mad about.
It was REALLY confusing, and I noticed that people often say one thing but then give different signals, sometimes more than one set.
I think animals are a lot more straightforward because they can't speak, and therefore, can't lie. Body language is all they have, so it has to be clear and honest.
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Diagnosed Bipolar II in 2012, Autism spectrum disorder (moderate) & ADHD in 2015.
The obvious displays by an animal translate to obvious displays by a human, for example a genuine, spontaneous smile or someone all 'in your face' with raised voice and clenched fists. The complex and subtle are undeciphered due to the disconnection. How can you fully understand a form of communication if you don't know the whole language?
I think this is key: many of us can pick up on the obvious signals from humans or animals, but not the more subtle or conflicting signals that humans sometimes give. I've taught myself to examine human facial expressions and body language consciously, but it's still confusing because many of the subtler signals have a similar look (e.g., annoyance and exhaustion), and sometimes people will subconsciously give off conflicting signals if they are trying to hide their feelings.
My mom did this a LOT: she'd sigh, pout her lips, tense her shoulders, and bang things around as she did housework. I interpreted this as "Mom is upset/angry?/hurt?" and ask her, "Mom, what's wrong?"
Mom would reply, "NOTHING" with a lot of tension in her voice.
I'd ask again, "Are you mad?"
"NO," Mom would reply, loudly.
I'd wait for awhile, getting more and more anxious as she continued to huff and puff and slam things around.
A half an hour later, she'd yell at me for whatever it was she had been mad about.
It was REALLY confusing, and I noticed that people often say one thing but then give different signals, sometimes more than one set.
I think animals are a lot more straightforward because they can't speak, and therefore, can't lie. Body language is all they have, so it has to be clear and honest.
I agree, completely. Your example brought back vivid memories both from my childhod...and a day or two ago.
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
It makes me a little sad though, if one big reason people with AS/ASD are thought less of is because we aren't as good as NT people in dealing with / using deceit in everyday communication. What does that say about humans in general? That we developed an extra layer of complexity (read: intentional dishonesty) in our communication in order to survive?
_________________
“For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.”
―Carl Sagan
They're easy to connect with because they really ask so little of us. They don't want to have a long drawn out discussion of emotions or make us do anything we don't want to do. They just want a warm, dry place to sleep, good food, and some attention (throw the ball, or scratch behind the ears).
Other humans generally want much more from you when they try to communicate. And they are less obvious about it.
You've not stated in your profile
and you don't need to answer this
but
I feel Aspies/Auties (especially) like Temple Grandin have a closer emotional tie to animals and their emotional states.
Are you an Aspie/Autie?
If so, I'd be more inclined to believe you're on a closer emotional level to animals as I am and always have been.
It's innate with us.
No, I'll answer. I am not diagnosed with anything (and have not sought diagnosis) but feel pretty strongly that I have Aspergers. It's a pretty typical story. I started researching it when a family member was suspected of being autistic and after a ton of research, reading, talking, introspection and surreptitious digging into my childhood (doesn't turn up much though, honestly), I feel pretty strongly that I am "on the spectrum." I think if my family wasn't so tolerant of me and willing to do things for me (talk to strangers for me, make phone calls for me, etc) my life would be a different story.
RE: animal human bond. I'm unsure. I've had difficult horses and they respond well to me.
I still think it's a combination of being quiet and patient, taking a unique approach to problem solving, and understanding animal body language. Perhaps the connection is deeper, I may be wrong. Ive been skeptical of that but also, the best horse I've ever ridden was given to me because the owners felt he responded better to me than he did to anyone else and that he even acted different with me than anyone else. And he did, and I will never have a real explanation as to why. I didn't see him for almost a year before they gave him to me, and to this day I will say there was a look of complete recognition in his eyes when I went to catch him and he knew exactly who I was.
I could ramble on about animals all day. Specifically horses but small animals get a part of my focus as well.
The honest answer is I don't know whether there is some sort of innate connection between people with autistic/aspergers traits and animals, or if the animals respond better because those traits in people allow for better communication with the animal.
_________________
RAADS-R: 192
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 135 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 49 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)
AQ: 44
Let me explain: I am not diagnosed nor am I "self-diagnosed," all I know are what my life experiences have been up to this point and a lot of it makes more sense when considered through the lens of autism and sensory processing issues.
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