Possible link between herpes virus and Autism?

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I've been reading that out of the hundreds of ideas doctors are analyzing as possible causes of Asperger's Syndrome, they think there's a chance that it is caused by a virus. During some unrelated searching (on mononucleosis, cancer, diabetes, etc) the other day on Wikipedia, I came across this page on "Cytomegalovirus." It's a viral genes of the herpes virus group. Upon reading further down the page I made an interesting discovery. Mothers [and I hypothesize fathers as well] can pass on the virus to their children. Listen to this: "...5% to 10% of infants who are infected but without symptoms at birth will subsequently have varying degrees of hearing and mental or coordination problems."

The herpes virus is a virus that is spreading at an exponential rate, any ideas on what else is also spreading at an exponential rate, hehe. AUTISM specifically Asperger Syndrome. The wikipedia page says that as many as 50-80% of Americans have the cytomegalovirus, care to do the math? 5-10% of 50-80% and minus instances where the virus isn't passed on, and minus the fact it's the CHILDREN of herpes carriers and not the carriers themselves. The resulting number sounds a lot like the number of potential Asperger's cases.

NOTE: The quote says "infected but without symptoms"...meaning you don't show any signs of the virus!

It is the perfect answer...or at least I think so. It answers why aspies are so spread out all over the country, MILITARY. Men (and women) go off the places like Iraq and the Far East and pick up the virus, take it home to their wifes/(husbands) and thus, to their children. It also explains why it is found so often in Oregon. We Oregonians have a different thought process as it relates to mental health, FIND IT, FIX IT, AND IF YOU CANT CURE IT WE CAN ALL LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT. And maybe the "free love" era played a part, hehe.

Now you may be asking yourselves, "Then why is it not more prominant in large urban areas like LA, New York, New York...SCHOOLS...not to step on any toes, but teachers in urban areas have too much on their plate to be making mental health diagnoses. <----Some answers to trouble in big cities maybe???

Autism is more common in children of older men? ------> children of men who have had more time to pick up the virus.

Why does it not show up more in other places like in the Midwest. CONSERVATIVISM...again, not to step on any toes, but my parents are acting in a state of denial when it comes to me getting diagnosed. The cards are all there, social issues, routines, strange obsessions, stimming lol (I've toned that down to almost nothing), and most importantly, lack of responsiveness as a toddler. Still, they can't seem to see the benefit of a diagnosis. Granted the damage, for the most part, has already been done...but I think a lot of good can come from it. The fact is, you can't change what you don't know, and the only way to know is learning how to target specific behaviors.

Anyway, your turn...tell me I'm crazy, so I can put this obsession to rest...or tell me I'm on to something and maybe I've found a future dissertation. : )

-Ozzy

Last edited by Ozzy on 06 Dec 2007, 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

No.

I suppose it's possible, but a bit of a stretch.

I'd like to see more evidence, less conjecture.

NOBODY claimed autism was spreading at an EXPONENTIAL rate! If you were right, whether you are talking about HHV or HSV, nearly EVERYONE would have autism! The older men theory is based on a real stupid association!

Why does it seem that I am the ONLY one that remembers like first year science!?!?!? I saw how viruses worked and how many had strived for some cures for DECADES in KNOWN history, yet people thought AIDS would MAGICALLY be cured in 5 years. I said NO WAY!! !! If they couldn't find a cure for HPV or HSV, WHAT makes you think they can find a cure for the more vicious and changable HIV?

They "found a cure" for AIDS! ****DUH**** And I said ******VIRUSES CHANGE****** They were SHOCKED to find that their cure only worked on THEIR strain of the virus! In real life, it is WORTHLESS! They can do the same with the common cold!

They tried babboons blood! I thought HEY, how could you get rid of all blood without killing the body? Again, it FAILED!

NOW, they say older fathers give autism! They have NO CONTROLS! Older fathers are more likely to have autism, because most marry early and have kids early. So many marrying late and having kids late may have autism! Also, they are more likely to be exposed to ANYTHING. HECK, I went for an Xray recently, and the MORON that xrayed me started to do it without giving me any kind of protection. Her excuse? I was old enough that I wouldn't have kids anyway! Men NEED their testicles, thank you, and people TWICE my age have been fathers. Heck, tony randall was almost twice my age when HE had his last kid! Still, apparently many feel like that.

BTW Women are MORE LIKELY to have affected gametes because, according to current science, THEY are formed from like BIRTH wereas male ones are formed continously. Also, an ovum that is merely somewhat genetically sound can be viable, but a sperm's viability only BEGINS there! Yet they don't take the history/age of the woman into consideration?

BTW People with Autism are less likely to have "herpes". That is to say less likely to have HSV(which is what most call herpes). It apparently ALWAYS has symptoms, and symptoms are probably more likely to present in autistic people, but they happen with a trigger(stress of some nature). It is more likely to be caught by promiscuous people, but MANY in the US have it! If it caused autism in even 10% of cases, nearly everyone in the US would have autism. MAN, I used to REALLY wonder what cold sores were. I mean I neevr got sores like that when I got a cold. DECADES later I find that a COLD causes stress, and triggers the symptoms of HSV!! !! !!

That said, I DID get HHV-3, AKA Humano Herpes Virus 3, AKA CHICKEN POX. They USED to think you could be CURED! NOW they think the body merely SUPPRESSES it, and it can become Herpes Zostrix in the 80s or so. Still, a LOT of people in the US probably have that. And before that, most women in cow ranches got COW POX! How many? Enough to make a link between THEM, the cow pox, and chicken pox! You see, cow pox and chicken pox are SO close to one another that you won't get the nasty chicken pox if you got cow pox! Cow pox is also called the Vaccinia virus! Sound familiar? Vacca is latin for COW! THAT is where we get the term vaccination! I would say herpes is PRETTY POPULAR!

Last I heard, like 1 in 3 in the US is supposed to have a current contagion of some STD. 90% of women supposedly show signs of having been exposed to HPV. How many do you think have HSV? And REMEMBER! Autistic people are more likely to be in that 10%, like I am! Granted, I am not female, but I also don't have HPV or HSV and the women got it from SOMEPLACE!

BTW Regarding Canker sores. Not all are from a virus...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canker_sores

It even lists Sodium lauryl sulfate as one of the causes! Of course, though I have had canker sores from previous injury(like biting the inside of my cheek), they have been few, and I can't remember the last time I had any. It HAS probably been over 20 years though. Interestingly, I ALSO haven't had SLS in most toothpaste during that time.

Maybe you meant cold sores. I NEVER had those.

I am just responding to the bare information that possibly some doctors/scientists somewhere are investigating the Herpes II virus ( the sexually transmitted one, or the whole Herpes "family" ) as factor in trigger/cause of aspergers/autism symptoms. ( do you have a link to research?)

I caught Herpes ( the Herpes II, sexually transmitted one) in 1987 but, after a few years of raging "local" aswell as general flu-like symptoms whenever having an attack, the frequency and severity of these attacks diminished to the point that it might have seemed i'd "got over it", except that i had read that it never goes, but sets up home in the spinal column, gradually makes its way north and may produce mental deterioration. I had forgotten about this aspect of it until today.
My greatest fear had been accidental "contamination", "by hand", of my eyes, ( a strange twist on the old scare story about a certain activity making you go blind!! ) because it can cause blindness,( and reading, writing, drawing, watching films and so on are my passions in life) .
It had not occurred to me that my period of manic-depression/mood disorder from 1989-1992, leading to breakdown, depression and anxiety,( which has only lifted since I improved diet, and eliminated wheat, dairy etc at times), followed by increasingly visible/disabling symptoms of ASD,( whereas my aspergers condition before then might have been said to have been an "adapted" one, of reasonable functioning) could have been the result of the virus's activity. ( and i do not see how but am beginning to wonder!)
My son, who has broken language, poor coordination, and auditory problems, conceived and born 8-9 years ago, might, according to the little info you quote, theoretically also have been affected.

What is the research? What exactly does it say? Please share link to papers. Thank you.
Sorry, just noticed it's just Wiki etc. More signs of mental deterioration on my part!

A poll to see how many on wp have caught herpes, or who know if parents have it, might be useful if there seems to be anything in it.
I always remember reading at the time when i first caught it that the virus slowly makes its way up the spinal column and can cause mental deterioration, but i didn't think it would happen during my lifetime!! !!

Last edited by ouinon on 06 Dec 2007, 9:17 am, edited 13 times in total.

aspergers has been around for a long time

loads of nts have cold sores

there is a lot of AS in my family but noone seems to ever have had cold sores

AS isnt a viral disease. it is a genetic condition.

Not cold sores, but their more lethal relative, the Herpes II virus, a sexually transmitted virus that after infection of genital organs migrates to spinal column and moves up it over time, apparently leading to later mental "degeneration" ( what kind i don't remember being specified !).
ASD may well have genetic basis but scientists are more and more aware of epigenetic factors involved in triggering certain aspects of ASD, especially in first few months of life. Genes involved in brain development ( which is nowhere near finished at birth,) being triggered/activated by certain elements in the environment.

I remember being very annoyed to discover that the herpes virus thrives on the proteins in nuts, beans , and chocolate, meaning that if i wanted to stop them proliferating i would have to stop eating two important elements in my diet ( and i did notice, when the attacks were still "local", that frequency increased not only at times of stress but also if ate lots of nuts and chocolate.), especially when excluding wheat and dairy. I'm now wondering how they're doing up there in my brain. Having a party after all the marzipan, beans, and chocolate i've eaten over the last few years!!

Ozzy, please provide links to research as soon as possible ! ! Thanks

PS: Aspergers is a new word to describe something noticed for first time in the 40's , at same time as first sensory and cognitive disturbances/difficulties were being treated by food and chemical exclusion in the States, and after modern transport, wars etc had made cross-continental promiscuous sex possible in unprecedented numbers. Herpes II virus on exponential increase over almost exactly same time period as ASD, just 20 years earlier. The big scare story about spread of still incurable Herpes II was in the 70's and early 80's.

Last edited by ouinon on 06 Dec 2007, 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

yeah im thinking no. herpes is nasty

Perhaps the full quote will shine some light on my point.

This means that potentially as few as 1% of 5% of 50%. AND THEN minus other mental illnesses caused such as "down's syndrome" or hearing problems, etc. 50% being the statistic of virus carriers.


I think some are missing the point. Saying everyone would have it I think is a "misunderstanding."

And thank you Ouinon, no I don't mean cold sores, they are a completely different virus, regardless of whether the are in the same family. I mean canker sores. I deleted that bit from my argument for all you new viewers.

Also thank you for your input that is very interesting!



Spinal column? Does someone smell DNA modification? What it sounds like to me...

-Ozzy

Well i had a cold sore last week, I guess that makes me more autistic than usual.

In the first read of this I detected sarcasm..."more autistic," but I see that you use similar use of the term in other posts. Sarcasm or not sarcasm?

Lookin for fuel here and I will take what I can get, even as unsubstantiated as my argument is.

-Ozzy

Thank you very much for the quote.
I knew about the dangers of infection for the baby if it is born DURING an attack of genital herpes, and the need for a caesarean in those cases, but was absolutely NOT aware of the dangers of "damage" in utero. ( the congenital risk, in fact)
To think my 8 year old son is maybe suffering from sensory, motor, and cognitive difficulties as a result of my having herpes , despite having made sure i was not having an attack at time he was born, is pretty hard.
To think that if I had had a child earlier, before the virus had had time to make its way into my nervous system, it might have not had such difficulties, is horrible. This might, as you say, explain why the frequency of autistic disorders is higher in children of older parents. ( i was 35 when i got pregnant. 11 years after catching herpes).
To think there may be many such cases is absolutely horrifying.
And to think that my own aggravated aspergers difficulties in the last 15 years may also be a result of neural damage by the virus is depressing.
I am somewhat staggered. If there is anything in this theory/explanation the scale of the disaster seems enormous.

Last edited by ouinon on 06 Dec 2007, 9:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

And viruses don't modify genetics? Read about it, it's not even a correlation, it's a direct cause and effect.

-Ozzy

First, from WEBMD



Canker sores are usually NOT, and certainly not always, from ANY virus!! !! ! SO, if you mean those, you're wrong!

Cold sores ARE caused by HSV-1 and 2! You originally said Herpes! So WHAT do you REALLY mean?

YEP, They found out at least a few decades ago that HSV(AND HHV apparently) hides in the nervous system, and that is one reason it is triggered by STRESS. When I was a little kid, they apparently thought people got over it. I never heard about the mental deterioration, so that bit of info is probably TAINTED! You need STUDIES and CONTROLS! Still, I guess it is logical because it inflames nerves, and DOES stay in the nervous system, and HHV DOES EVENTUALLY have some similar effects(They often don't occur until old age though.).

There is a LOT of garbage around PROVEN to cause mental deterioration. Some is ILLEGAL and still here, just look at all the filth the US is getting from China, in BABY TOYS no less! Just in the common metals, Mercury, Aluminum, and LEAD are apparently bigger problems now then ever and ALL can cause brain damage. Enough Mercury and/or lead can be passed from a seemingly healthy mother to all but obliterate the childs nervous system. I am unsure about aluminum.

Also, I had none of the symptoms you gave for someone born with CMV. And, I was big.

BTW What does it affecting the brain have to do with it changing DNA? Most things that change the brain DON'T affect DNA and vice versa! Besides, Herpes surprisingly tends to stay LOCAL! Apparently it affects a bundle of nerves, and often stays with it. The nerves do go to the spinal column, and up to the brain. Although HHV when it becomes zoster apparently tends to favor the abdomen, and definitely spreads.

The worst meltdown I have ever had was after I had been given attenuated hepatitis viruses for a medical school immunization. And today I find my meltdowns essentially linked to an immune response to viral agents like influenza. When I am exposed to the virus and my immune system kicks up, a meltdown ensues. Simply from personal experience, I do believe that there is a viral link in autistic expression, but that does not mean that there is a viral connection in the transmission of autism. Depending on probably complex genetic factors, certain people are vulnerable to autistic dysfunction that is likely to be triggered by certain environmental factors like virus, dust and so forth.

There, that should cover all the bases in the whole debate.