If NT apparently means "non-autistic"...

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Does that mean that if all this time I was misdiagnosed with AS and I have what I think I have (which is ADHD and general+social anxiety), would I then be an NT, according to WP?

I ask because I always referred NTs as "normal" people, but being on WP it seems a lot of people refer NTs as 99% of the population. It doesn't make sense to me because you can't spell "neurotypical" without "typical", so what makes Aspies so atypical compared to a person with, say, Altzheimer's or Mental Retardation or Fragile-X?

NT is used by many on WP as a sort of a term of convenience meaning "not autistic." The people who use this term, frequently, are aware of this lack of precision.

It's also used as a term for somebody who, apparently, succeeds in society, follows the prevailing social norms as to such things as clothing, interests, and world-view, and has an instinctual grasp of what to do in social situations. In this case, it does not merely mean "non-autistic." It means "normal" in a broad sense. This is also imprecise, as it doesn't take into account much of human variation.

It's true: many of the non-autistic population would not be considered neurologically-typical by any measure.

How I had people tell me, NT is anyone not on the Autistic spectrum. Aspie, LF, HF, PP, all those previous diagnosis encompasses the spectrum.

With your ADHD, GAD and SAD you are NT. There is a difference between an NT with anxiety overlay not reading social interactions and a person on the spectrum having troubles.

The ADHD might give you troubles with executive functioning skills, but the reason you have issues is different from a person on the spectrum.

My husband does not have ADHD and has atrocious EFS. I have bipolar disorder and my EFS are sometimes trash. Our issues of why our EFS are totally different.

The current theory is...how the psychologist explained it to us,

Once you get a mental illness under control, you can function like anyone else. If your ADHD/SAD/GAD is being handled optimally, your social problems will go away. There is nothing that will "medicate" or cure Autism proper. If my husband's anxiety goes away, he will still have problems with social skills and "reading people".
This issue isn't the anxiety (which totally doesn't help), but his Autism.

Neurotypical for me is a division between a person with a childhood developmental disorder present from birth, and everyone else. That's all it is. It doesn't make one person more "normal" if you are NT, it just means you were born with a brain that is hardwired for optimal social skills.

My two pennies into the ring...

Last edited by Tawaki on 14 Feb 2016, 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

So the young man down my street is NT even thouh he has severe Mental Retardation? He is 26 but can't say a word except "hiya!" to everyone, regardless of who they are. He's physically disabled too, so requires a wheelchair, and he needs 24-hour care because of his extremely low IQ and inability to communicate except for saying "hiya" to people. He went to a special school and now he goes to this adult day care while his parents are at work. He may be able to make eye contact and is affectionate, but he can't really speak except shout and babble, and he has no understanding of the rest of the world, like politics, fashion, work, money, trends or responsibility.

But he's a neuro-typical?

I would second that it is more just anyone that is perceived as "normal" or without the impairments most of us have

NT just means hard wired for social interactions. I have seen barely verbal Down Syndrome workers at Mc Donald's with more social skills than my husband. They knew when someone was happy, or when someone needed a napkin.

That barely verbal man you described, may be much more socially aware than my husband.

Also just because someone is non verbal does not mean they are unware. That man may not know about Donald Trump or fashion, but in his life he know he says "Hi" and people react. An Autistic child with a 140 IQ may never learn that.

Last edited by Tawaki on 14 Feb 2016, 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

So just because I have the instinct to read people (body language, face expressions, etc) and can make eye contact and greet people, I was misdiagnosed with AS for sure and I've been NT all this time?

I don't think that proves misdiagnosis, you can train yourself to do those things

but I wouldn't consider someone such severe SAD and ADHD that it is disabling to be NT, if you think those are your only problems then there are drugs that work fairly well for those.

Merriam Webster Definition

Wikipedia Neurotypical article

ADHD, Down's not NT

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 14 Feb 2016, 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Per everything I have read, and what the head big deal psychologist told my husband, yes.

Listen, I have bipolar disorder I, and am considered NT. I've had 15 inpatient hospitalizations, amd 23 day hospital stints. I've had a miserable childhood and sometimes struggle as an adult.

Yes, I am NT. NT does not mean perfect with no struggles. NT does not mean no mental illness. NT only means that I don't have to actively learn social skills. NT doesn't mean you don't struggle social interactions.

My husband has told blow by blow how to act in new social situations. My ADHD (who won't quit talking to me while I'm typing this..argh!) knows, but his impulsivity gets in the way. He wants to talk and have social interaction, but the need "run his mouth" or do physically something gets in his way.

Here's an example of two people who don't shut up when they should in a social conversation.

My husband's Aspie monolog. He does not see people are slowly dying of boredom, and will keep talking even if you start walking away.

My ADHD friend, he knows he's talking to much, but the ADHD symptoms just swamp him. He gets upset if people just turn around and leave. My husband actually is not upset because he doesn't see it as a "I can't take your talking any more."

Curious, why does it matter if you are NT or not? It doesn't make your issues any less if you are NT, at least for me.

<--- Wonders what percentage of Aspies monologue.

Interesting, Merriam includes ADHD as not NT, but...

Where I live ADHD is kicked under the mental illness category and not considered developmental disorder present from birth.

ADHD kids do not get the same support as kids on the spectrum even if they need it.

Had my husband been diagnosed with ADHD, the longest the company would have to hold his job is 6 months. Then his job and disability check would be gone. Because he was diagnosed with ASD, the company could not flat out fire him. ASD fell under the same category as blindness and deaf/hearing impaired. ADHD isn't considered present from birth, as ASD.

Many parents who would love to get ADHD put on the spectrum because of services. I know of a few parents who are actively floating the idea that ADHD is a form of Autism. *shrug*

I know the support group my husband goes to is for Autism only. Their definition of NT is what I wrote above. Could be because the professionals that diagnosis use that specific definition around here.

From my husband's support group of 15, really only 2 don't. They actually ring a small bell if you go over 10 minutes and don't ask for questions or feedback.

13 out of 15 do. All of them are really high functioning.

I don't use NT to mean "not autistic." For that I would use the term allistic, or plainly, not autistic.

NT to me means, literally, neuro-typical, as in having a neurological patterning that is typical of the majority of people who do not have a neurological disorder, giftedness, or any other significant difference in neurology.

Going by the statistics I've seen for various disorders and their rates of comorbidity I would estimate NTs to comprise about 60-70% of the population.

There are a lot of overlaps between disorders and many are frequently comorbid to each other. Having one disorder tends to increase the likelihood of having at least one more to go with it, and/or having subclinical traits of other disorders.

I would not consider anyone with ADHD to be neurotypical. People with ADHD have significant brain differences from people who do not have it. 5 major areas of the brain are affected by the disorder. And it's not just a difference in wiring, there are size differences as well.

Some of those brain differences in ADHD are very similar to what is seen in autism. There is also a lot of overlap in the genetics associated with both disorders. It can be difficult to distinguish between them diagnostically. It's common to have comorbid autism and ADHD, or to have clinical traits of one while also having subclinical traits of the other.

It can be really helpful to make distinctions between different disorders when you need to understand yourself and what kind of support you need. And I get how there might be less of a stigma with identifying with ADHD than with autism. But having ADHD does not make you neurologically typical.

If you have bipolar disorder, you are not NT.

I have seen you chime in on this forum many times explaining things from the NT perspective. Fair enough but it is very misleading if you represent yourself as NT. Your own perspective is informed by having bipolar disorder.

Here's how I may have ADHD instead of AS then:

-I can recognise body language
-I do annoying things to people, fully aware when and why they get annoyed, but it's an impulsive thing
-I find even my own interests hard to focus on
-I am easily distracted
-My mind is always bobarded with "chattering thoughts"
-I express my feelings well
-I sometimes jump my way into conversations or yell out my opinion, aware that it's socially inappropriate but again it's due to impulsivity
-I find it hard to sit still, I'm not the sort to sit and watch TV for long periods of time, even though I spend a lot of time on the computer I still keep getting up every 5 minutes or so
-If I don't get my stuff ready for work the night before I will definitely forget important requirements
-My mind, environment and life is very "cluttered"

As a child I found it hard to focus on one toy, instead I'd be in the middle of playing with a dolls house then move on to something else, but maybe that's normal in kids?

I was a very active child, always on the go, very imaginative, and didn't have trouble with participating in social activities with other children. When playing imaginative games with other children I was rather bossy, but I seemed more cooperative when playing with toys with other children. I was also good at sharing.

I found learning hard at school because I had trouble paying attention.

As a teenager, I was often deemed as "annoying", and often got rejected. I was aware that I wasn't wanted in a group, but I latched myself on to a group of classmates because I didn't want to hang around on my own.