Throw me a bone here...

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Name's Zach. 23. St. Charles, Missouri, USA. NT.

I'm currently training to be ordained as a Brahman, and one of the duties of a Brahmin is outreach work to different groups of people who suffer immensely.

I worked with this job agency that mostly hired people with Autism/Asperger's a couple years back when the job market was crap.

They didn't belong at those factories, working those crappy jobs for such crappy pay. I wanna change that. You're too smart and too of good of people for that.

I noticed a few common symptoms, but I'm still having trouble understanding Autism/Asperger's.

So far I've noticed the best way to help y'all is to treat you no differently than I'd treat a guy I met at a bar, club, rave, or concert. I've noticed a lot of Autism Experts and people who work with people on the spectrum modify their speech, they talk like really slow, overly-polite, overly-proper, and in a really exaggerated tone of voice. Nobody talks that way, and I don't think that does you any favors because if you talk that way you're just gonna have more issues with social interaction, trust me.

I've noticed they exaggerate their facial expressions too. I understand you need help learning and interpreting facial expressions, and I got you. A lot of the experts exaggerate their facial expressions to where they look like they just had a stroke or something. There's other ways you can learn how to interpret and convey facial expressions that won't make me look like an idiot and won't make you self-conscious.

Lastly, a lot of organizations designed to help people with Autism/Aspergers seem to live in this fantasy that you need your hand held through life and need to be babysat, and that people with higher-functioning Asperger's won't experiment with the vices. Sure, people with more severe ASD and Asperger's might need a great deal of assistance in life, but not high-functioning Asperger's. You're no different than the clerk at the gas station I attend, except you're probably smarter. That guy ain't too bright. You gotta make your own decisions in life, form your own set of morals, and when you mess up, you gotta learn from it. I'm not gonna pretend like you can't make your own decisions and that I can stop you from experimenting with the vices or making bad decisions. Everybody does, and I don't know why they try and stop you. I've been told, "Well, they have an addictive personality". "Oh yeah? Have you seen the obesity rates? Credit Card debt rates? Seems like a good portion of the country has an 'addictive personality'".

No more nonsense. Whenever I do my outreach work, the people with Asperger's/Autism will be treated no differently than any average Jane or Joe. But I gotta understand you better.

So throw me a bone here. Take me into the mindset and perspective of somebody with Autism/Aspergers.

You're right, but the reality of it isn't a lack of self-awareness to these things for a lot of us. It's just crippling social anxiety, talking to some people is so excruciating for some of us (myself especially) that we just don't have the energy or time to think of things like "smile, talk slower, faster" because thinking about it is only going to make it a lot worse.

You are right, though. The only thing that's truly ever worked for me is positive experiences. When people talk to me and treat me like they do everyone else, it makes a world of difference. I appreciate having my limits tested (not pushed - don't bring me to a club or a college party, or a rave. ever.) and it's nice to have friends who have confidence in me. From there, the social anxiety fades and I can better learn to practice all the things you listed above.




That was always my biggest problem growing up, no one showed me how to learn from my mistakes. I was always taught to continue making those mistakes so someone more responsible will pick up where I left off. I was never shown how to be independent, no one ever showed me how to think for myself or make my own decisions, and I got no where quick. If your outreach goal is to help adults with AS, helping them be self-sufficient is a great step. I had to learn it completely on my own, there was just absolutely no therapy or any sort of support out there to help whatsoever, and my parents sure as s**t believed I could live in their basement until they died. Luckily, that didn't happen.. but meh. Would've been a lot easier with the right guidance.

Using exaggerated facial expressions while talking to an autistic is pointless, because we won't notice anyway. I think you're absolutely right - just talk normally. It's our job to learn to understand normal speech.

As for addiction, I think we're no different from the rest of the population. Some struggle severely, others not at all. I tend to think it's genetic. (No one in my family has ever had addiction issues, and neither have I.)

Thanks for caring enough to ask these questions - it's great to see someone who is passionate about what they do!

I feel differently than the above two posters. I think you're reacting to your agency's oversimplification with one of your own. Please tattoo on your forehead, backwards, so you can read it every time you look in a mirror, "If you've met one Aspie . . . you've met one Aspie."

I do have trouble with fast speech, and I find formal introductions, politeness, and even slightly exaggerated encounters, in most cases helpful. And I feel I do have some trouble with decisions, sure I can make my own, I'm not so autistic I couldn't flip a coin, ya know? I have mostly stumbled through life.

You would seriously short-change me if you treat me exactly like the average Joe (I'm a woman, for one thing, so it would have to be Jo... and I'm not average, either).

I bring a dual perspective to what I see would be helpful for "clients" with Aspergers or HFA. I used to work in community support roles with adults with major mental illness, nearly all of them unemployed or underemployed. Then I also studied psychology at a strong university. Most of my co-workers in either place lacked either the rigorous academic training (first group), or else the concept of supportive roles being extremely helpful (second group). I sense you are interested in support roles, but you will better serve your chosen population by getting some rigorous academic information on adult autism, as well as posting on an autism forum. (Forums aren't rigorous, by their very nature.)

We're all different whether we're autistic or not.

I think what you were getting at is, autistic people shouldn't be treated like they have an intellectual disability? Or something like that? I do think there's a problem with autistic people getting stuck in jobs of a lower skill level than they are actually capable of--or just being denied a job all together--because people underestimate the skills they do have. Oddly enough, there seems to be a problem with the general population equating ALL disabilities with intellectual disability, even ones that are obviously not brain-related, such as an inability to walk.

Anyhow, I'll chime in, even though I'm not diagnosed with AS or ASD. (I'm BAP plus ADHD-PI with hypersensitivity, which comes out to almost the exact same set of problems, except my social skills are less bad.)

A few times on here, people have posted a topic asking folks what their biggest autism-related problems are, and popular answers were sensory issues and executive functioning. Alas, sensory issues and executive functioning get pretty much no attention from autism-related professionals.

I kind of like to read forums, articles, blogs, and such about social conflict and how to resolve it and what everyone involved is thinking. Comparing discussion of social situations on this site with what I see on other forums that aren't particularly autism-related, here are some general patterns:

People with autism are likely to have a large portion of other people being mean to them--just being bullied and abused by darn near everyone (classmates, sometimes family members, etc).

Because of differences in things like body language, eye contact, prosody, and tone of voice, people with autism are often misunderstood or perceived as weird by other people (e.g. besides being mistaken as intellectually disabled when they aren't, they may seem scary/creepy, or rude/mean/snobbish, or disinterested--I once had someone tell me "I used to think you were a snob but it turns out you're actually nice!"). They have practical problems as a result: others won't hire them for a job, others avoid them out of fear, others are offended, etc.

A lot of people with autism have bad social anxiety. It's probably a result of all the social difficulties.

It's very common for autistic people to feel like they have to pretend to be a neurotypical person. The attempt in general is called masking; doing it successfully is called passing. This is very stressful, mainly because of the effort it takes to constantly be putting on an act, but some people also get some extra stress because it feels dishonest and therefore unethical.

Lots have mental scripts or guidelines they follow in order to interact with people.

I often find people of all neurotypes who seem to have an insufficient capacity for nuance. I think this might be what gets called "black and white thinking" in autism literature, but I'm not sure. It seems way too common to just be an autism thing. Normally when people have this problem, I feel like they're kind of stupid (not sure if it actually correlates with IQ), but on this website, I've noticed a few people having this problem even though they otherwise seem smart. It also seems like autistic people are more likely to have this problem in a way that interferes with the basics of getting along with people, and they are more likely to have trouble finding a happy medium, even when they are aware it exists. For example, if someone says something that's factually incorrect and you know the correct info, should you correct them (and be an pedantic know-it-all) or not (thus lying by omission)?

Some people enjoy conversation and they will do it for fun, relaxation, or bonding, while some people socialize over shared activities and probably end up doing a lot of talking in the process. It's a spectrum rather than two distinct categories. Among typical people, there seems to be a trend by gender (women being in the conversation camp and men being in the not-so-conversational camp... obviously just a trend and not a biological rule), while it seems a lot of autistic people are more toward the not-so-conversational end than their gender normally is.

It seems like a lot of autistic women have an easier time getting along with neurotypical males than with neurotypical females. I think the above may be part of the reason.

These are just my informal observations on things I've noticed more frequently on this site than on other sites. I haven't even been keeping track; it's from my memory. None of it applies to everyone on here, and most of it probably doesn't apply to most people on here, and some of it that is true could have explanations other than autism.

Things you might expect to be more common on an autism site (because of diagnostic criteria or stereotypes), but which actually DON'T seem more common include apathy for other people's feelings and difficulty putting oneself in another person's shoes (imagining other people's viewpoints).

Hope that helps.

15
Age: 61
Posts: 1,010
12 Feb 2016, 10:36 am
I feel differently than the above two posters. I think you're reacting to your agency's oversimplification with one of your own. Please tattoo on your forehead, backwards, so you can read it every time you look in a mirror, "If you've met one Aspie . . . you've met one Aspie."

And what Agency is that? I don't work for any agency, I work for the common good. I make no money doing what I do, I do it because it's the right thing to do. How is treating somebody as an equal, subject to all the same disciplinary action, yet subject to all of the same rights an privileges "over simplifying" somebody? Maybe you should get a tattoo on your forehead that says, "We are one", or "All men are created equal". All members of society must work together like ants, some of the routes certain ants take might be different, but that ant is utilizing that difference for the benefit of the colony as a whole.

I do have trouble with fast speech, and I find formal introductions, politeness, and even slightly exaggerated encounters, in most cases helpful. And I feel I do have some trouble with decisions, sure I can make my own, I'm not so autistic I couldn't flip a coin, ya know? I have mostly stumbled through life.

I'm not talking about fast speech - I'm talking about modify your speech altogether. Why on earth would I change the way I speak for somebody who speaks my language fluently and comprehends what I say? If I speak too fast, usually somebody will let me know, and I can repeat a little more slowly if needed. And being overly-polite a sign of ulterior motives and/or weakness. Being polite is a good thing, but being too polite might create a wrong impression. If somebody were to modify their speech like that talking to me, well, I can't repeat what I'd say on here because it starts with an f and ends with an f.


You would seriously short-change me if you treat me exactly like the average Joe (I'm a woman, for one thing, so it would have to be Jo... and I'm not average, either).

I couldn't care less. You get the point, don't you? That was my only objective - not to pat you on the back because you're a woman.

I bring a dual perspective to what I see would be helpful for "clients" with Aspergers or HFA. I used to work in community support roles with adults with major mental illness, nearly all of them unemployed or underemployed. Then I also studied psychology at a strong university. Most of my co-workers in either place lacked either the rigorous academic training (first group), or else the concept of supportive roles being extremely helpful (second group). I sense you are interested in support roles, but you will better serve your chosen population by getting some rigorous academic information on adult autism, as well as posting on an autism forum. (Forums aren't rigorous, by their very nature.)

Good. Then maybe you can tell me why aspies are in sped instead of gifted classes where their abilities will be embraced and they will be able to prosper. Also, in my experience I've noticed the supportive roles go by the book instead of doing what I do. The supportive roles provided by the community or family are totally ineffective because they do exactly what I'm saying is an issue. Did you ever stop to consider maybe that's the problem? That people who work with aspies are going by the book? I've read enough about asperger's and autism, enough to dismiss everything I've read as total nonsense because whenever I worked with aspies, I did almost the exact opposite of what those books told me and the results were amazing, not just with one aspie, but 5 of them. You say you're advocating for aspies, yet you're telling me to disregard everything they say and study asperger's/autism through somebody who's made a career doing mere guesswork. No thanks. I'll stick to my boots on the ground approach. I'm not interested in what somebody else has to say about aspies, I'm interested in what aspies have to say, which is why I'm posting on a forum.

@BeaArthur

I feel differently than the above two posters. I think you're reacting to your agency's oversimplification with one of your own. Please tattoo on your forehead, backwards, so you can read it every time you look in a mirror, "If you've met one Aspie . . . you've met one Aspie."

And what Agency is that? I don't work for any agency, I work for the common good. I make no money doing what I do, I do it because it's the right thing to do. How is treating somebody as an equal, subject to all the same disciplinary action, yet subject to all of the same rights an privileges "over simplifying" somebody? Maybe you should get a tattoo on your forehead that says, "We are one", or "All men are created equal". All members of society must work together like ants, some of the routes certain ants take might be different, but that ant is utilizing that difference for the benefit of the colony as a whole.

I do have trouble with fast speech, and I find formal introductions, politeness, and even slightly exaggerated encounters, in most cases helpful. And I feel I do have some trouble with decisions, sure I can make my own, I'm not so autistic I couldn't flip a coin, ya know? I have mostly stumbled through life.

I'm not talking about fast speech - I'm talking about modify your speech altogether. Why on earth would I change the way I speak for somebody who speaks my language fluently and comprehends what I say? If I speak too fast, usually somebody will let me know, and I can repeat a little more slowly if needed. And being overly-polite a sign of ulterior motives and/or weakness. Being polite is a good thing, but being too polite might create a wrong impression. If somebody were to modify their speech like that talking to me, well, I can't repeat what I'd say on here because it starts with an f and ends with an f.


You would seriously short-change me if you treat me exactly like the average Joe (I'm a woman, for one thing, so it would have to be Jo... and I'm not average, either).

I couldn't care less. You get the point, don't you? That was my only objective - not to pat you on the back because you're a woman.

I bring a dual perspective to what I see would be helpful for "clients" with Aspergers or HFA. I used to work in community support roles with adults with major mental illness, nearly all of them unemployed or underemployed. Then I also studied psychology at a strong university. Most of my co-workers in either place lacked either the rigorous academic training (first group), or else the concept of supportive roles being extremely helpful (second group). I sense you are interested in support roles, but you will better serve your chosen population by getting some rigorous academic information on adult autism, as well as posting on an autism forum. (Forums aren't rigorous, by their very nature.)

Good. Then maybe you can tell me why aspies are in sped instead of gifted classes where their abilities will be embraced and they will be able to prosper. Also, in my experience I've noticed the supportive roles go by the book instead of doing what I do. The supportive roles provided by the community or family are totally ineffective because they do exactly what I'm saying is an issue. Did you ever stop to consider maybe that's the problem? That people who work with aspies are going by the book? I've read enough about asperger's and autism, enough to dismiss everything I've read as total nonsense because whenever I worked with aspies, I did almost the exact opposite of what those books told me and the results were amazing, not just with one aspie, but 5 of them. You say you're advocating for aspies, yet you're telling me to disregard everything they say and study asperger's/autism through somebody who's made a career doing mere guesswork. No thanks. I'll stick to my boots on the ground approach. I'm not interested in what somebody else has to say about aspies, I'm interested in what aspies have to say, which is why I'm posting on a forum.

Everybody else, your input was very much appreciated, I will take notes and apply them to my approach. Thank you.

Treating someone as an equal in terms of respect and human decency is different from treating them as an equal in terms of what you can and should expect from them. We are people with a disability, we are different and have needs which aren't met when we are treated "the same as everyone else." Case in point, the people I care about make sure to explain new events and changes in plan to me ahead of time, because even though they're perfectly ordinary to them, such things upset me greatly and cause difficulty functioning. They explain jokes to me without my having to ask, and they do what they can to protect me from assaults on my sensory system, such as loud noise, bright lights, and close physical proximity to crowds of other people. None of these things would be done for a "normal" person, because they wouldn't be needed, but they are needed for me, and refusing to meet these needs in the name of treating me like an "equal" in fact demeans me and treats me like a lesser person whose unique needs are disregarded and deemed unimportant.



But BeaArthur isn't talking about "fast" speech in the way NT's understand it. Many aspies have difficulty keeping up with, and comprehending, even normal-paced speech, the rate at which most people speak, and as such, deliberately slowing down is actually helpful, even if it sounds demeaning and insulting to you as an observer. As a social disability, one aspect of functioning that autism impacts considerably is communication skills. Even for those of us with a very high verbal IQ, such as myself, the native language is primarily images and colour, not words. I think in pictures first and words second, so slowing down for an autistic is just like slowing down for a non-native English speaker. You wouldn't deliberately speak at a normal rate when you knew they couldn't understand, just so you could claim you treated them "like a normal person", would you?



Just as an aside, I find this comment dismissive, rude, and unnecessary.



Except for the part where you're blatantly tearing apart and disagreeing with the things an actual aspie is telling you from their perspective. If you've met five aspies, so what? We are one in 68 now, there are millions of us out there, and if your approach of acting like there's nothing different about us and that we don't need unique care actually worked, we wouldn't have a disability, we'd be NT.

And an arrogant as*hole.


LMAO. That's the only bone you'll get from me.

uppercaste, so lets work the paria's, ehey
throwing bones up for your hierarkey