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02 May 2007, 2:41 pm

I have been told pretend play is abstract thinking but I read in a school textbook on Child Growth and Development when I was 17 that children don't do abstract thinking till they reach their preteens. That explained to me why the work started to get hard around fifth grade. Because I’m a concrete thinker, the work started to get too hard for me to do and by the time I was in seventh grade, I couldn’t do any of it so I needed extra help.
So if pretend play is abstract and little kids aren’t abstract thinkers, then how can they possibly do pretend play then if they are concrete thinkers? I thought all it is is imagination. If you don’t have an imagination, then pretend play is hard for you. That’s probably why autistic kids don’t do pretend play because they lack imagination. That’s what I’ve read in books and websites.
When my boyfriend said pretend play is too abstract I told him but I read in the textbook that kids don’t start doing abstract thinking till they reach their preteens so pretend play can’t be abstract or little kids wouldn’t be doing it then so I asked him that question about it and he couldn’t even answer it. Maybe because I proved him wrong.



agentcyclosarin
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02 May 2007, 2:47 pm

I'm an abstract thinker and have been all my life. I have a visual memory and I learn through visualization and observation. I've always been able to pick things up just by watching them, I've always connected patterns and concluded why things were the way they were through observation and connecting patterns and I was always creating my own theories and finding ways to apply these and test if they were true or gather more information to prove them wrong or right.

Play pretend is idealistic. It can be abstract but than you have the rationals who are abstract just the same. I could think of many many incredible posibilities and outcomes and idea's that my favorite character of one show could have happen, I would always continue to build on the story line after the series ended through analysis and observation and apply it logically. I'm still very logic and I still hated playing pretend because everyone was so irrational and never "did it right".



cecilfienkelstien
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02 May 2007, 3:15 pm

I don't agree that aspies can't be abstract thinkers. I am concrete and have trouble with Abstracts but it dosn't mean we can't learn.
As far as imagination. I have way to much of that :D I just don't agree with the fact that kids can't do abstracts. It sounds like just another NTs trying to generalise



Fraya
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02 May 2007, 3:31 pm

Yeah pretend play is more creative imagination than true abstract thinking.

Even for those who are weak in the fields of creativity or imagination though deductive reasoning and experience can allow them to logically extrapolate the details of a scenario with only a small amount of creative input.

Such as Cyclosarin's example of placing their favorite television character in a new situation and building the story from there based upon their experience with the show and knowledge of the characters habits, abilities, weaknesses, etc.

In any case I believe most professionals are confusing a lack of capacity for abstract thinking with a lack of ability in using nonverbal clues to provide the information necessary to understand a particularly vague abstraction.



krex
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02 May 2007, 4:20 pm

I found this rather confusing when trying to figure out if I was AS.

I did pretend that I was Annie Oakly and did a lot of Kung Fu martial arts(my verssion,leaping around doing kicks.lol).But if someone asked me what I was doing...I wouldnt say..."I am Annie Oakly"...I would have said that I was pretending that I was Annie Oakly.

I did think my stuffed animals were real and sentiant beings and that I was from another planet...but I wasnt "pretending"this,I believed it.


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SteveK
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02 May 2007, 5:16 pm

Likedcalico,

I can handle abstract reasoning. I can also imagine. I doubt many here REALLY have a problem with either. NTs will use literal thinking, etc... to "prove" AS people can't think abstractly, but literal thinking is about attitude and present knowledge, and not about ability. Heck, I think I learned PLENTY of idioms. In fact, I even learned some spanish, german, and danish ones. Yet some here talk of people like phil saying stuff that just sounds WRONG!

AS thinking...

Look for answer
Found result
Give found result....

NT thinking...

Look for answer
Found result
Look for answer
Found result
Give some found result....



agentcyclosarin
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02 May 2007, 5:32 pm

SteveK wrote:
Likedcalico,

I can handle abstract reasoning. I can also imagine. I doubt many here REALLY have a problem with either. NTs will use literal thinking, etc... to "prove" AS people can't think abstractly, but literal thinking is about attitude and present knowledge, and not about ability. Heck, I think I learned PLENTY of idioms. In fact, I even learned some spanish, german, and danish ones. Yet some here talk of people like phil saying stuff that just sounds WRONG!

AS thinking...

Look for answer
Found result
Give found result....

NT thinking...

Look for answer
Found result
Look for answer
Found result
Give some found result....


Again I think this is a generalization. I think and apply abstractions.
I analyze critically in a detached and objective position
however I have the ability to go "why not?" when everyone's going, "why?"
and show them.

Saying AS can't think abstractly is saying that AS would be completely void of any iNtuitive Thinkers.



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02 May 2007, 10:47 pm

I've always been just fine with pretend play. In fact, I still do play pretend actually. It's like I have this need to do so. 8O Am I just crazy?



lkonantz
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02 May 2007, 11:03 pm

Lightning88 wrote:
I've always been just fine with pretend play. In fact, I still do play pretend actually. It's like I have this need to do so. 8O Am I just crazy?


No you are not crazy!! ! I still do it too and i'm 23. I have a great imagination and I use it all the time so I don't know where they got this idea that people with AS can't pretend play or have imagination because from what I can see we do! But that is just my opinion.



SteveK
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02 May 2007, 11:09 pm

Lightning88 wrote:
I've always been just fine with pretend play. In fact, I still do play pretend actually. It's like I have this need to do so. 8O Am I just crazy?


HECK,

I kind of have another life in my imagination. Sometimes it is like I can live both lives at once! And it is kind of nice, because I can do whatever I want in my imagination.

So no, there's nothing wrong with it. HECK, start you own basketball team and play with ripper and nawt! :lol:

Steve



Lightning88
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02 May 2007, 11:23 pm

lkonantz wrote:
Lightning88 wrote:
I've always been just fine with pretend play. In fact, I still do play pretend actually. It's like I have this need to do so. 8O Am I just crazy?


No you are not crazy!! ! I still do it too and i'm 23. I have a great imagination and I use it all the time so I don't know where they got this idea that people with AS can't pretend play or have imagination because from what I can see we do! But that is just my opinion.

Wow, I'm glad it's not just me! It's like an addiction to me. I even pretend play over the phone! It gets my friends and I in a much better mood and makes the hours go right by! Plus it gives me a lot of creative ideas for stories and drawings, too! My mom thinks it's weird that I still do this at eighteen, but that's only because she's lame.



Lightning88
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02 May 2007, 11:25 pm

SteveK wrote:
Lightning88 wrote:
I've always been just fine with pretend play. In fact, I still do play pretend actually. It's like I have this need to do so. 8O Am I just crazy?


HECK,

I kind of have another life in my imagination. Sometimes it is like I can live both lives at once! And it is kind of nice, because I can do whatever I want in my imagination.

So no, there's nothing wrong with it. HECK, start you own basketball team and play with ripper and nawt! :lol:

Steve

I can do that, too! I can also imagine myself or a character of mine right into a movie or TV show as I'm watching it, too, even if it's the first time I've ever seen it!

Maybe not a basketball team, but maybe they could meet somehow, like if they're both for some reason vacationing in Indiana and then I somehow meet up with them! :D



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03 May 2007, 5:10 am

Given that the majority of me
imaginary friends were geometric
shapes, I'm not sure how much
more abstract pretend play could
be.