Autism in Asia

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There was a thread earlier on about autistics and Japanese mythological beings, but most seemed to think of it as a joke. The originator of the thread did have a point, however far fetched it may seem. It is possible for Asian autistics to be perceived as special beings, especially those born with savant type abilities. Within the Asian context, where myth and magic has always formed a very immediate and important part of how everyman experiences the mysteries, autism is likely to be viewed differently from how the West perceives it. And while there has been a lot said about autism in the Western world, little has been said about autism in an Asian context; at least little that I know of.

As I am about to embark on this new avenue of exploration, I wonder if there is anyone who might have some pointers to share with me. I am particularly interested in the Chinese conception of autism as I have the language skills to conduct research here. There are some very tantalizing continuities within the Chinese tradition that points to a certain acceptance of high functioning autistic individuals. Since time immemorial, the Chinese have celebrated the recluse who renounces the world and lives as a hermit in some mountain paradise. His exclusion from society is viewed as noble and his profession of aloofness from rank, wealth and honors the highest mark of character. There are also other stories of the misfit, the most famous being Ah Q, who shows signs of being autistic. In that instance, social rejection is brutal and degrading, and the desperation to which Ah Q is driven to fill his belly and to prove his worth leads ultimately to his execution as a reluctant rebel against the empire.

All notes will be welcomed.

I know one person who hasn't come out with that he has Autism but shows all of the signs, he's Japanese and conveniently in my icon and also the lead singer of my favorite two bands.

I didn't take the mythological thread as a joke personally even if I did comment jokingly to it, it was well thought out and did have a point.

Asian's are very secretive, they tend to keep everything hush hush for the sake of image. I don't know too much about the Chinese culture but I wish you luck on the research, I'd be interested in reading your idea's as they further and progress.

what/where is the link to the japanese mythology thread?

I'd bet there's a ton of AS is Asia. Psychiatry is hasn't really caught on there yet like it has in Europe, America, Australia & NZ.

I don't think it's because they're trying to keep it a secret or sweep it under the rug or something. They haven't really looked into it yet because they've been busy dealing with other stuff.

Something about that comment is bugging me a little bit.

Maybe because it sounds like a negative stereotype, although I doubt agentcyclosarin meant it that way.
I do know that in one of the Asian cultures (Japanese?), people say "yes" even when they mean "no" because of the rules of politeness, or something similar. It's not just people sometimes being polite- it's seriously an important part of their interaction style. Wouldn't those responses be fun for an Aspie to try to decipher!

that Ah Q story is very weird

Yes, you're correct. My interest in Japan has given me a better ability to decifer sarcasm. LOL

I know a lot about Japanese customs and mannerisms, they use backhanded compliments A LOT. It bothers me to a great deal too but stereotypically its true. Image is everything.

They must look proper and kind. They must be loyal and polite. Ect, ect. Unlike in America where bad publicity is good publicity in Japan bad publicity has your ass kicked to the curb and your career is cut, end of story.

Claiming that Asians are very secretive is probably too sweeping a generalization. I am more open to the word private, but the people in the know of such "private matters" would tend to be very large (extended family, friends, neighbors...). There probably are not many Asians at this forum, or of those who are, few retain their linguistic affinity with Asia. So perhaps my plea for some pointers is a shot in the dark. But how autism has been dealt with in the Asian context fascinates me as Eastern language systems and the educational emphasis is very different from the West. For autistics that had a high level of intelligence, they are likely to have become one of the many scholars that dominated Chinese social, political and intellectual life. The Chinese sometimes refers to the scholar as a "book idiot" - someone who could read and recite but useless otherwise in the practical matters of life. While not all "book idiots" were autistics, such a characterization creates social space for mildly autistic individuals to operate; their idiosyncrasies are looked upon as harmless or even laughable while their symbolic manipulation talents are highly valued.

Such research would be ground breaking stuff and I wished that I had the resources of a university at my disposal. What I need to do is to get in contact with some of the researchers in China specializing in this field. But how is an unemployed guy who sits in the library all day long going to do that?

I'm not Japanese, but I am of Chinese descent and happen to know of other Asians on the Autistic spectrum.

It is absolutely a generalization yes. It was more of my pointing out that you would have a difficult time with dealing with this, especially if you met or found someone of Asian decent that has HFA/AS or show traits of it they'd likely be guarded. Like I said, I know of someone who is Japanese and he has not come out with it but he shows a LOT of signs. I don't figure if anyone actually got to talk to him they'd really get much out of him being he'd very guarded and shy but if you're looking for someone to study I could supply you with some theory and interviews/live performances where you could veiw his actions. However, I've been interested in him for quite sometime and have my own theory that may differ from someone who has not been as educated or involved with him.

As to how he or others treat this if analysed correctly and he does indeed have HFA/AS is unknown. How others would view him, the interaction if he was open with it no one can tell.

Typically Asian countries such as China, Japan and Korea are highly educated, due to the stress level, high demands, image and ect being "abnormal" or showing AS behavior traits wouldn't be so strange or strikingly different. This is assumption, I could be miles off since I am not of their decent.

Nevertheless, I wish you luck on your research.
If by chance I find some pointers, someone who knows the Asian system intimately I will direct them your way.

I think Asians are very left-brained people, which tends to be the case with many aspies. You know - math, science, music. Asians love RPGs, which are basically tailor-made for aspies. I wonder if there is anything to any of that.

Also, I have wondered if perhaps some Asian gurus could have AS. They are completely detached from society, detached from their emotions, and often high philosophical. I know this has been mentioned briefly already, but it has long been an idea of interest to me. Of course I'm sure there have been NT gurus/holy men as well. It just seems like aspies would have a major advantage in that department.

We are all speculating of course. But Asian societies have honored men and women who have shown a propensity for solitude. A man who goes into the mountains and lives in a cave is considered by the people to be divine. That sort of shutting out, the elimination of practically all forms of sensory stimuli, has been highly regarded in Asia.

I am less interested in a comtemporary examination of autism in Asia. The label autistic does cast a slur and Asians are unlikely to accept it. What I am more interested in examining is how Asian, specifically Chinese social systems, may actually create the space that autistic individuals need to live. Another example that has been mentioned is the brahmin/guru caste system in India. The emphasis on ritual and an exacting demand on how things are organized may reflect an autistic mind, but it certainly makes it possible for mildly autistic individuals to thrive. The situation is quite unlike in the West where organized chaos has become the standard of the day.

Is one of those bands "Dir en Gray" ? He looks like a guy I saw in one of their videos.

I'm of Korean descent, and AS seems to run in my family across generations. My dad is pretty strongly affected, which apparently everyone in my family notices. He grew up in Korea, and it sounds like he was more or less accepted and praised for his academic abilities. It's definitely a society where what matters most is your academic and career accomplishments, which are very closely intertwined. Girls there find guys with certain traits (brainy, not so social) attractive, so he never really had a problem with that.

One issue I see with this theory is that although Asian cultures do revere the silent, all-knowing hermit teacher, I would think that individuals with AS would be far too pedantic and insistent on trying to teach someone and convince them of something to conform to the Asian ideal of mythological teaching. The goal is to say something wise in as few words as possible and wait for the other person to come around, but I just don't see that happening.

Asian cultures do seem to celebrate certain traits of autism. The scholar-hermit is one manifestation. The relationship between scholastic achievement and career advancement is perhaps most closely intertwined in Asian societies that have been influenced by Confucianism. Western societies, even though they have been the advancers of knowledge in the last few centuries, have comparatively valued scholastic achievement a lot less than Asian ones. In medieval Europe, it was the soldier that found pride of place; the scholar was almost forcibly shunted into monasteries.

For polities like China, Japan and Korea, a career in the civil service would almost certainly require attainments in the letters and the arts. Unless they were born into the gentry, because of the poor state of educational services, the only boys (and they were all boys) who got trained were the ones that showed very early promise. These would be the little professors who, much like the mildly autistic savants, could pick up and master words seemingly at sight or on hearing it. “Normal” children who require a more extended period of learning were probably not given the opportunity they needed to master the written word.

The theory does open up some questions, like how much did autism come to define or even dominate Asian societies? Formal Chinese, the type that was used in written court discourse, is so pedantic that it does remind me of the autistic mind. Could the celebration of autistic genius and mastery of the written word lead to the hardened, unchanging and ultimately inadaptability of Asian societies?

No.

Metronome.
Kyo (of dir en grey) isn't Autistic in the least.