Seperating aspergers from personality

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Hello everyone,

I've come here because I need an awnser to my question, and I think you lot are the best people to ask.

Can the aspergers syndrome be seperated from who someone actually is? Or is someones behaviour and aspergers one and the same. I ask because quite often I don't know whether a certain person should be made to be held responsible for his behaviour, or whether he is a victim of this syndrome. My brother, particuarly as of late, has been behaving in quite a nasty and incosiderate way. He's 21 years old. I've let him know how his behaviour is affecting me and the rest of the family, but he carries on regardless. He is displaying some very selfish tendencies.

Is aspergers making him behave this way? Or is it possible he's just an as*hole? (forgive my crude term). I need to know whether I'm doing him a disservice by letting certain behaviour slide, and assuming he behaves how be behaves becuase of the aspergers.

Thanks for any advice.

It could be that he doesn't realise what he's doing or saying is viewed as nasty or inconsiderate to others. Which would be due to Aspergers. But that doesn't mean that he can't learn. I've said things before that would be considered inappropriate, but if you help him, he can change that. If he does realise he's being an as*hole and still continues though, then that doesn't justify it.
So I would suggest trying to help him see why what he does is selfish, but if he carries on, then I don't think he can really use Aspergers as an excuse.

My family say I say things that are ignorant and upsetting without me even realising it. If they say to me on my own that it was hurtfull or ignorant then I try to stop myself from saying it again or in a similiar situation.

Just depends, he could genuinely not realise or incapabable of stopping himself from doing it, or like you said he could just be an as*hole.

Maybe he's just behaving like an as*hole. But then again that particular "quality" may be aggravated by a sense of not fitting in which is caused by Asperger's syndrome.

Either way, he needs to be told that that kind of behaviour is unacceptable. Whether or not it is caused by AS.

There's nothing in the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers that states it causes people to be nasty or mean. I get really tired of hearing family members use Aspergers as an excuse for bad behavior as I hear many parents say it causes their youngster to be a monster. Sorry but it doesn't. True, pure Aspies, are the ones that sit quietly in the corner and do not cause problems. If you have an Aspie with bad behavior then most likely they have a comorbid condition like Bipolar or they are just an as*hole.

The only way I see AS could cause bad behavior is in someone that has been severely abused and bullied where they start taking on the same behavior as the abuser because they think that is the way you are suppose to treat others. So it would be a learned bad behavior, but then that person probably would have developed some other condition through that kind of treatment.

I see my personality is very different from my Aspergers. In fact I see the Aspergers gets in the way of my outgoing friendly personality and turns me mute & shy sometimes.

Aspies are more prone to rage than NT's. I have this especially bad because of a high testosterone level.

Asperger's is NEVER an excuse for bad behavior. We need concrete advice on how to act. I agree that he may have some other issues going on such as anxiety or depression, but it might also be sensory or just that he is being bullied.
Good Luck.

If he knows he is being rude and does it anyways that has nothing to do with AS. Remeber he has lower odds of reading others and one's s self that might look like he is being rude. The hard part is trying to see if it is from not reading well or being on purpose.

You didn't mention if he's been diagnosed with AS or if it's merely a possibility you suspect. In either case, AS may provide a root cause but not an excuse. As with any disorder or similar condition, once the causation and symptomology is known and understood, the person affected bears the responsibility of working toward compensating and/or adapting in order to act acceptably in social surroundings. To be sure, this can be difficult and even those of us who have successfully compensated for decades can slip or have outbursts, but NT's have their moments as well. But on the whole, it is possible for those with AS to act polite and considerate.

There are as*holes with AS, and as*holes who are NT, so it's possible he's just an as*hole, or trying to use AS as an excuse to act like one.

Agreed.

True, and the confusion rests to two main things: ignorance and confusing AS with other problems, including misdx's.

AS is a neurological condition, and that preceeds anything about personality. It's a pervasive developmental disorder by the DSM criteria, which means it will affect the development of a person from the time it manifests (which for AS should be before 5 years of age). This includes personality. However what it is and what it influences in the person's development are distinct. Unfortunately it seems most humans haven't the intelligence level to grasp that distinction.

AS does influence the development of personality but like with any peson, it's far fromt he only influence. Things like existential experience, parenting, education, and environment factor in just as much with an AS child as with other children. it's just when a child misbehaves or embarrasses a parent with his/her behavoir or demeanor, it's easier for a parent to fall back of "Well, he's AS" that realize it's a number of things, include what that parent is doing. What can I say. As a teacher, I'm nto suppose to blame the parents, but my expeirence as a teacher has lead me to the stark realization that not only are parents usually morons par excellence, they are also superb rationalizers who evade taking accountablitiy for being a parent (yet they want to reserve the right to yell at and blame whomever else they wish).

Another thing that absolutely infuriates me and makes me hate working inthe school system with these kids is that they are often misdx'd, or if they get an AS dx, the diagostician often resists giving further dxs. As result AS kids or kids misdx;'d as AS who have been abused, traumatized or neglected don't get get those problems addressed properly, as any problem is automatically attributed to AS. This means when a child with an AS dx acts out due to PTSD, ODD, reactive attachment disorder or emotional problems, the problem is seem as resulting from their AS and not these other disorders. And in the eyes of parents, therapists, teachers and other caretakers, this causes a lot of ambiguity and confusion about what AS really is about. I can't tell you how this make me loath the human race altogether - these are often kids who have suffered at the hands of adults, and then they get blamed and stigmatized for their behavior because the dx of AS lets those responsible for hurting the child off the hook.

whether he is a survivor of this syndrome or not, he should be held responsible for his behaviour - just like we all are.

And this idea we are 'victims' of this syndrome. . . well, I don't know any different but what I am, the only 'difference' is what OTHER people with out the syndrome tells me I am missing. In most ways I am a survivor of the syndrome. Victim seems to me to mean that I was one way BEFORE I had AS and now I am another way and suffer what I wouldn't have suffered if I were not born with AS.

hummm. . .since I have AWAYS had AS, I really couldn't tell you. But don't let someone get away with c**p because you feel sorry that he is a victim. Yikes!

Merle

Merle

This is what I see a lot of too. I notice also that a certain number of parents of AS kids appear to me as on the spectrum. But generally those parents are highly offended should you suggest they are one of "us". But I've witnessed a mom further down the spectrum than me boo hoo as to why her kids are the way they are. Then you look at her and her dorkie husband who has to be on the spectrum too and I want to slap them. Gee wonder why the kids are such a handful? Because the parents are both autistic and won't admit it let alone try to better themselves. Instead they blame everything on the school system. The mom sits there meekly so I see how her kids may have the run of the house and therefore think they can dominate the schoolhouse too. Both sides should have equal responsibility.

Yes, I understand when the parents are on the spectrum it is even more a struggle to raise children, but there are things they could do instead of blaming everything on someone else. Then I see NT parents who will not "parent" their autistic kids or their NT kids. Part of the problem is the bad parenting skills of the current generation. Letting your kids run wild like animals is not being kind. It is being cruel because the kids do not learn boundaries. AS kids especially want and need structure and concrete boundaries.

But then again I really think there is a large portion of the younger kids being misdiagnosed as AS when they have something else. Its unfortunately becoming a catchall Dx for problem people and is insulting to those of us who truly are Aspies. I also see low spectrum getting labeled as Aspie. Bipolars and schizos being labeled AS. I've even heard of one psych in town who claims BP is on the spectrum. Sorry but it is not! I've brought this using AS as an excuse for bad behavior up at local meetings and got shushed.

Yes, AS can define some points of your personality, INCLUDING some socially inappropriate behaviour... but if your brother has recently started acting inappropriate, and if he seems to be doing it on purpose, then I personally wouldn't relate it to the fact that he has AS.

I myself used to be very violent when I was in primary school and now, I am very bad-tempered... both of which are socially unacceptable... but I don't relate that to AS. It's my own flaw, it's a flaw in my personality, but it's certainly not caused by AS. I'm harshly honest... and that too is socially unacceptable; and it's also a flaw, but it's a flaw caused by AS.

AS is pervasive and colors every aspect of your perceptions and thoughts. That of course does strongly effect your personality (hence why most of us here share many of the same personality traits) one of the traits it causes is not intentional inconsideration though.

As others have stated accidental inconsideration is common for us but the "normal" reaction is to apologize and try to avoid doing it again in the future once we are made aware.

I'm not sure about parents giving their autistic children free reign though. My parents used it as an excuse to be excessive (She doesn't learn like normal children so we have to be more extreme with her punishments, etc) and since your already considered damaged goods little regard is given for your psychological health even by protective services (resulting in my eventual breakdown and PTSD).

Personality and Asperger's are different. You cannot say that all AS are the same. However you can say that AS will influence your personality to a varying degree. Generally speaking if the person is High Functioning they can learn good behaviour. Some concepts like blame or who is at fault are a bit can be tricky. Avoid that angle, it not so important if you think about it. An expert would be able to tell you whether somebody can control their behaviour but lower functioning would have more difficulty as a rule.

But I don't think it is this. You haven't told us what is actually happening. When you have AS it can be hard to express yourself to people. You can misread situations. I often think people are angry when they are not. Also we are sensitive about certain things and these things must be accommodated because it is almost impossible to change them tbh. It would like being violated. It depends on the aspie, but it could be personal space, property, routines. Just because we can't read people as well doesn't mean we aren't sensitive to other people. Neurotic, jumpy people make me nervous. My folks are like that, so I prefer them in small doses lol. I’m not really family orientated. Not into family holidays, etc.

Also we can have problems with empathy. This is not bad behaviour. We don’t always know how someone is feeling. I’m not sure NTs do either they just think they do. If think that is bad consider this: Is rubber-necking car crashes empathy? Is filming atrocities empathy? Is reality TV empathy?