The Myth of the Stupid Believer

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J Relig Health. 2019 Oct 5. doi: 10.1007/s10943-019-00926-3. [Epub ahead of print]
The Myth of the Stupid Believer: The Negative Religiousness-IQ Nexus is Not on General Intelligence (g) and is Likely a Product of the Relations Between IQ and Autism Spectrum Traits.
Dutton E1, Te Nijenhuis J2, Metzen D3, van der Linden D4, Madison G5.
Author information

1
Ulster Institute for Social Research, London, UK.
2
University of Amsterdam, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
3
, Parkville, Australia.
4
Institute of Psychology, Erasmus University Rotterdam, Rotterdam, The Netherlands.
5
Department of Psychology, Umeå University, Umeå, Sweden. [email protected].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/315 ... t=Abstract

One possible explanation might be that people with higher IQs often attend college and are subject to more intense indoctrination into the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular).

One might expect to see a similar decrease in religious interest among college educated Muslims, Buddhists, or other religions.

The various Christian Churches as units have, usually, had a strong relationship to the concept of scholarship.

The Roman Catholic Church----whatever their faults, and there have been many----has always been strongly associated with a stern, exacting sort of scholarship. This is exemplified by the intellectual career of a recent Pope: John Paul II, who was a secular, as well as a divine, professor of various intellectual disciplines.

Basically, monks of the Christian religion kept the "Dark Ages" from going completely "dark." Without them, it's possible that western Europeans might have lost all Roman intellectual influence, and reverted back to a pre-literate state.

Basically, Islam itself is not anti-intellectual; only certain sects are. Buddhism, Hinduism, and many other similar religions strongly encourage scholarship.

Simpler Explanation: It's easier to simply believe what you are told than to apply reason in determining what one will believe. Lower-IQ people have lower reasoning skills. Therefore, it is easier to assume that lower-IQ people will be more religious because they have a hard time applying reason to the real world.

There is no need to invoke autism for lack of religiousness (although there may be some correlation), as this would lead religionists to believe that people with autism are all atheists and thus "Tools of Satan".

As if we don't have enough trouble from religious nutters...

Okay....

So this pile of steaming gobblydegook can be translated into human earth language as follows:

Many folks THINK that dumb folks tend to be more religious than smart folks.

But our study shows no such correlation: religious folks can be either dumb, or smart, and the same applies to the non religious (than can be dumb, smart, or in between)as well. Further ...if you break down "smartness" into the component parts of specific aptitudes- it STILL doesn't correlate with religiousity, or the lack thereof. So ...you all KNOCK IT OFF with this "only dumb folks are believers" horse manure!

Have I gotten it right?

Okay. If that' so then maybe so. Maybe not. We shall see what furthers say.

But THEN they go on to make this further crazy leap. They say (a) autistic folks tend to have high IQs (I knew SOME of us do, but I am pleased and flattered to learn that that trait is endemic to us according to them). And they say (b)that autistics tend to be Atheists (from being on WP I know its common among autistics, but it didn't realize that science had actually correlated autism with atheism. That's news). and (C) they are suggesting that autistics skew the whole IQ thing into making it look like smart folks are more often atheists.

WTF?

We are less two than percent of the population, but we are able weigh the stats so much that we autistics by our lone selves singlehandedly created a myth that slanders religious folks the world over? I am flattered that they think that we autistics could be THAT powerful!

But I cant buy that just because there are a few autistics who live up to the brainy Sheldon Leonard stereotype- that by itself created this myth they are obviously trying to debunk: the religion negatively correlates with IQ.

They're not saying people with autism are necessarily highly intelligent. They're talking about highly intelligent people with autistic traits .

Highly intelligent people seem to engage in Critical Thinking and Skepticism -- they seem to not only ask questions, but to ask the kinds of questions that even "expert" religionists can answer only with difficulty. This may have little to do with autism itself, since without Critical Thinking and Skepticism, a person may tend to believe whatever they are told, and without question.

Again, I caution everyone against giving cause for religionists to believe that our ASDs make us "Tools of Satan".

If you think this thread could be used by religionists to push the idea we're all 'Tools of Satan' then ask for it to be deleted. I won't hold it against anyone if this thread is deleted .

When I was attending church I heard of lawyers in the congregation,met a surgeon, physics PhD holder, nurses,engineers, also some ex-druggies

A wide range overall.

Ok. so what IS it that they are saying "about people with autistic traits"?

The point of the article is that smart folks CAN be religious.

So...what then do "autistic traits" have to do with anything?

Are they saying that the subset of smart folks who have "autistic traits" tend to not be religious?
And are they saying this population who combine smarts with autistic traits unfairly weigh the scale against their thesis that smarts can go with belief?

If so then how exactly IS that weighing unfair?

If smart folks tend to have autistic traits then that's what smart folks have.

^ Good questions. Unfortunately they don't say which 'autistic traits'. For me that would be needed to see why some smart people with such traits tend not to be religious.

In any case it seems to be a possible explanation they're putting forward , rather than something that's actually been tested.

I guess you, and no doubt others,are sceptical about such an explanation . There may be good reasons for such scepticism .

IQ doesn't prevent cognitive dissonance and magical thinking. I agree with Robert Sapolsky Magical thinking is within the schizotypal spectrum. This doesn't nessisarily mean clinically mentally ill. This could be more common than not in general population, by definition 'normal'.

There is some evidence to suggest that there can be neurological tendance towards supernatural beliefs. There could be multiple evolutionary reasons for this.

There are of course plenty of follower and those that like the community social/belonging aspects of organised religion.

IQ is not a full test on critical thinking.

Of course there can be very smart people of faith. Many of them their religion is just something personally compelling, which they have no desire to prove or push, however there are those are firebrands.

Firebrands can have personality disorders, in which case religion is part of the modus or behaviour itself. It could be something so fundamental to their social status that they are not going to give it up.

Intelegence is a capacity it doesn't always mean acting rationally all the time.

The reality is a creator or higher power needn't:
1. Care or be aware
2. Be moral
3. Require following or worshiping
4. Be deserving of praise
5. Still exist
6 Ever have existed
7. Be all powerful
8. Be all knowing
9. Be proof of doctrine
10. Etc.

There are many unique creed that relate more to to cultures and politics of the time and region. It is very easy to use the god's plan excuse to explain away this but that is not a testable hypothesis.

Many of these doctrine have extremely circular and contradictory doctrine or are otherwise very vague you can get a huge range of meaning out or none at all.

My anecdotal experience is religious autistics either like the rules, structure and ritual of religion or have schizitotopal traits or combination of both. Also rigid thinking can be a factor, especially if been engrained from.a young age.

Another aspect is social isolation and parental influence can lead to magical beliefs about oneself or others. The brain had a tendency to fill in gaps.the brain is to a mixture of creative and analytical.

However the logical contradictions in doctrine that leave plenty to unpick for hyper analytical types. The conflict is between rule followers and empiricists. Of course also for personality disordered inviduals this is a game of manipulation.

Logical is not the same as empirical either. These are different mindsets that must be combined to be effective at seeking truth.

I don’t believe most people, these days, believe atheists are “tools of Satan.”

Why should we lock a thread because of that possibility?

What we should be doing, instead, is continuing the dialogue. Proving the “religionists” wrong if they hold to that opinion.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 08 Oct 2019, 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Why must all religious people be idiots who only ever understand their religion literally?

The ones with mental difficulty are those who pathologize imagination.

I have not religious in any way but I know a lot of religious people (my own wife included). I have never met anyone who took religion literally or denied that evolution, the scientific method, etc were anything less than valid. I also know people who are highly intelligent (MENSA member smart) who are also very religious too.

I took a religious class to get married in the church and met a lot of people who take it very seriously. Every single one of them had very significant doubts about certain doctrines of their faith. It's not even a case of being brainwashed from birth either: I know a couple of people who wholeheartedly embraced Christianity well into their middle ages. Even the sermons were full of excellent life lessons that could just as easily apply to anyone, religious or secular.