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Joe90
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02 Jan 2017, 1:07 pm

I was told that logic and common sense are the same thing, but I read somewhere that Aspies are logical but lack common sense, so how can that be?


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ZenDen
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02 Jan 2017, 1:29 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I was told that logic and common sense are the same thing, but I read somewhere that Aspies are logical but lack common sense, so how can that be?


There is "good" logic and there is "bad" logic. You use common sense to determine which is which.



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02 Jan 2017, 3:39 pm

Maybe that person was thinking of a very loose and vernacularish use of the term "logic." The formal definition of logic shows that it is quite different than common sense.

Logic is about the rules of reasoning, and common sense is about the context or content in which you reason, so in that sense, common sense is more like the opposite of logic. Most of the information that is common sense has to be learned through experience, and learning from that experience requires some intuition, especially social intuition. That's where the difficulty with AS comes in.



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02 Jan 2017, 4:35 pm

To quote the 2nd Doctor Who (Patrick Troughton):

"Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority."

(Wheel in Space)



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02 Jan 2017, 11:41 pm

The answer to your question is that whoever told you that "logic", and "common sense" are the same thing was illogical, and very wrong, and in fact rather naive.

"Common sense" is just that: "sense": the most common forms of instinct, and gut feeling. Intution.

Logic is just that: "logic" ( calculation based upon analyzing data).

Logic can yield the same conclusions as does common sense, or logic can yield conclusing that oppose common sense.

For example if you cruising down the highway in the middle of nowhere in the desert, and you notice that your gas tank is near E you might use "common sense" and start to drive faster to get the nearest gas station as fast as you can. But if you used "logic" you might calmly reason that "a car uses less fuel the slower if it goes so if I slow down it will extend my gas mileage, and therefore improve my chances of getting to a gas station"- and you then slow down. Common sense would dictate "get outta this situation as fast as possible", but "logic" would dictate driving slow.

A sociology professor I had told us about someone who ran a computer program simulating the economy of a city. They tested what would happen if the government provided low cost housing. When they ran the computer program it showed that if the government did that it would reduce the amount lost cost housing in the city, instead of increase it. Common sense would dictate that if the government provides something you then have more of it. But when the data was crunched "logic" showed that the opposite is the case in that particular instance.

If you always followed "common sense" you would think that the sun was smaller than the earth, and that the earth was flat.



ZenDen
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03 Jan 2017, 11:57 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The answer to your question is that whoever told you that "logic", and "common sense" are the same thing was illogical, and very wrong, and in fact rather naive.

"Common sense" is just that: "sense": the most common forms of instinct, and gut feeling. Intution.

Logic is just that: "logic" ( calculation based upon analyzing data).

Logic can yield the same conclusions as does common sense, or logic can yield conclusing that oppose common sense.

For example if you cruising down the highway in the middle of nowhere in the desert, and you notice that your gas tank is near E you might use "common sense" and start to drive faster to get the nearest gas station as fast as you can. But if you used "logic" you might calmly reason that "a car uses less fuel the slower if it goes so if I slow down it will extend my gas mileage, and therefore improve my chances of getting to a gas station"- and you then slow down. Common sense would dictate "get outta this situation as fast as possible", but "logic" would dictate driving slow.

A sociology professor I had told us about someone who ran a computer program simulating the economy of a city. They tested what would happen if the government provided low cost housing. When they ran the computer program it showed that if the government did that it would reduce the amount lost cost housing in the city, instead of increase it. Common sense would dictate that if the government provides something you then have more of it. But when the data was crunched "logic" showed that the opposite is the case in that particular instance.

If you always followed "common sense" you would think that the sun was smaller than the earth, and that the earth was flat.


For example if you cruising down the highway in the middle of nowhere in the desert, and you notice that your gas tank is near E you might use "common sense" and start to drive faster to get the nearest gas station as fast as you can. But if you used "logic" you might calmly reason that "a car uses less fuel the slower if it goes so if I slow down it will extend my gas mileage, and therefore improve my chances of getting to a gas station"- and you then slow down. Common sense would dictate "get outta this situation as fast as possible", but "logic" would dictate driving slow.

As I mentioned earlier there is bad logic and good logic. What you've supplied here is an example of bad logic. The reason it's called bad logic is because you are operating with a false premise (this is NOT the same as faulty common sense). If you want to talk about these things it's best to use the correct terms to avoid misunderstanding...just makes common sense, right?

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If you always followed "common sense" you would think that the sun was smaller than the earth, and that the earth was flat.


No. Common sense tells us that things that are further away seem smaller. Not using common sense and accepting false premises are what's causing the trouble. The incorrect assumption (premise) is that both heavenly bodies are the same distance from us.

However your example of a flat Earth, uses false premises to create a failure of common sense to parse things correctly.



Joe90
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03 Jan 2017, 12:06 pm

I'm still confused.


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03 Jan 2017, 12:19 pm

The driving fast part through a desert is more stupid than common sense. Lot of people do stupid things because they don't have the common sense to know to not do it. Lot of people are not street smart. Things that are obvious to me are not obvious to everyone. Also common sense can be common sense for someone but not for someone else. Like I was shocked to learn on Reddit that not everyone knew dryers had lent filters so they just thought the dryer quit working because they never cleaned the filter per load. Also not everyone knows how to work a lawn mower when all you have to do was hold the thing down and pull on the thing hard and it runs. But this is all based on personal experience and if you have never done a load of laundry in your life because you were never taught and if you grew up without a yard, you would have no experience with a lawn mower because you never saw your parents using one in your life time and no one you knew had a yard.

Also many people believe going fast gets you somewhere quicker but this logic is flawed. From my personal experience, when you go fast other cars you have passed still catch up to you and I always laugh when a car speeds in front of me to make the green light but by the time they have finished their turning, I am already driving by them and did they really save any seconds or minutes?

And here is another example of common sense. I have told this story numerous times on here about my ex boyfriend. I had to go get some gas for my car but he wanted to go to the store to get some Mountain Dew so I told him he could go across the street to the store but he was worried he would get hit by a car and what if a drunk drive came and hit him. I was like "oh for god's sake" and just dropped him off at the store anyway and went cross the street and got gas and then went back across the street and picked him up. Then he goes "Oh you meant that street, I thought you wanted me to cross that street" and he points to the highway. The gas station and the store were on the same side of the highway. Common sense would tell you what street to cross because why would you need to cross the highway and back to get to the gas station if they are on the SAME SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY. Now that my friend was an example of him lacking common sense. It would have been better if he would have just said "I was stupid so I don't know why I thought that" or go "My bad, I wasn't thinking" than blaming it on me saying I wasn't specific enough because I didn't tell him what street to cross. But that really did grind my gears and I will never forget it. Now I wonder if it was part of his undiagnosed schizophrenia at the time or was just being a jerk? I read that schizophrenics have cognitive impairments so it affects their reasoning and stuff and memory if I remember correctly. Maybe he was too sick to realize he made the mistake but I don't know. But back then he just came off as stupid so I thought this was all a joke but he was actually serious so I was going around telling everyone about this because I was so pissed at him for blaming it on me and not accepting it was his bad. Who the hell doesn't know what street to cross to get to the store if they are right next to each other? Common sense right there.


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03 Jan 2017, 1:08 pm

starkid wrote:
Maybe that person was thinking of a very loose and vernacularish use of the term "logic." The formal definition of logic shows that it is quite different than common sense.

Logic is about the rules of reasoning, and common sense is about the context or content in which you reason, so in that sense, common sense is more like the opposite of logic. Most of the information that is common sense has to be learned through experience, and learning from that experience requires some intuition, especially social intuition. That's where the difficulty with AS comes in.


Very well said!



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03 Jan 2017, 1:34 pm

ZenDen wrote:
If you want to talk about these things it's best to use the correct terms to avoid misunderstanding...just makes common sense, right?

Well since you've mentioned correct terms, "good logic" and "bad logic" are not proper terms. I have formally studied logic and I'm not even sure what you mean by those terms, and they are not in common use as far as I know.

I think either soundness or cogency is the term you are looking for, but of course most people won't recognize either of those.

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Quote:
If you always followed "common sense" you would think that the sun was smaller than the earth, and that the earth was flat.


No. Common sense tells us that things that are further away seem smaller.

This member's post reveals a (mistaken) belief that common sense refers to intuition. That seems to be the foundation of your disagreement.



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03 Jan 2017, 1:47 pm

Logic: Looking people in the eye makes me feel weird, and I forget what I'm trying to say. Best to avoid it.

Common sense: Eye contact is super duper important. Because... it just is.



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03 Jan 2017, 4:45 pm

starkid wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
If you want to talk about these things it's best to use the correct terms to avoid misunderstanding...just makes common sense, right?

Well since you've mentioned correct terms, "good logic" and "bad logic" are not proper terms. I have formally studied logic and I'm not even sure what you mean by those terms, and they are not in common use as far as I know.

I think either soundness or cogency is the term you are looking for, but of course most people won't recognize either of those.

Quote:
Quote:
If you always followed "common sense" you would think that the sun was smaller than the earth, and that the earth was flat.


No. Common sense tells us that things that are further away seem smaller.

This member's post reveals a (mistaken) belief that common sense refers to intuition. That seems to be the foundation of your disagreement.


Quote:
Well since you've mentioned correct terms, "good logic" and "bad logic" are not proper terms. I have formally studied logic and I'm not even sure what you mean by those terms, and they are not in common use as far as I know.


During one of his first lectures my professor at Roosevelt University in Chicago used these terms to explain exactly what we're talking about today. If you begin your argument with a false premise then follow all the steps of examining a logical statement you will come to a false conclusion. I'm sorry you don't like the terms he used...perhaps when you lecture to your college students you use different terms?

But let me ask you, since you didn't offer us any illuminating facts on your own, how you would label such a false argument? Because, whether or not you use these specific terms what I've said is true, or perhaps you'd disagree?

My thought was to show all so-called "logical" statements are not necessarily equal (because of false premise) because many people do not understand (as shown in this posting). Do you think my explanation was sufficient to convey this thought?

Anyway, your trifles aside, we're trying to discuss and pass along correct information to others....since you've studied the subject please go ahead and teach us. I'm always ready to learn, Professor.



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03 Jan 2017, 5:01 pm

ZenDen wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The answer to your question is that whoever told you that "logic", and "common sense" are the same thing was illogical, and very wrong, and in fact rather naive.

"Common sense" is just that: "sense": the most common forms of instinct, and gut feeling. Intution.

Logic is just that: "logic" ( calculation based upon analyzing data).

Logic can yield the same conclusions as does common sense, or logic can yield conclusing that oppose common sense.

For example if you cruising down the highway in the middle of nowhere in the desert, and you notice that your gas tank is near E you might use "common sense" and start to drive faster to get the nearest gas station as fast as you can. But if you used "logic" you might calmly reason that "a car uses less fuel the slower if it goes so if I slow down it will extend my gas mileage, and therefore improve my chances of getting to a gas station"- and you then slow down. Common sense would dictate "get outta this situation as fast as possible", but "logic" would dictate driving slow.

A sociology professor I had told us about someone who ran a computer program simulating the economy of a city. They tested what would happen if the government provided low cost housing. When they ran the computer program it showed that if the government did that it would reduce the amount lost cost housing in the city, instead of increase it. Common sense would dictate that if the government provides something you then have more of it. But when the data was crunched "logic" showed that the opposite is the case in that particular instance.

If you always followed "common sense" you would think that the sun was smaller than the earth, and that the earth was flat.


For example if you cruising down the highway in the middle of nowhere in the desert, and you notice that your gas tank is near E you might use "common sense" and start to drive faster to get the nearest gas station as fast as you can. But if you used "logic" you might calmly reason that "a car uses less fuel the slower if it goes so if I slow down it will extend my gas mileage, and therefore improve my chances of getting to a gas station"- and you then slow down. Common sense would dictate "get outta this situation as fast as possible", but "logic" would dictate driving slow.

As I mentioned earlier there is bad logic and good logic. What you've supplied here is an example of bad logic. The reason it's called bad logic is because you are operating with a false premise (this is NOT the same as faulty common sense). If you want to talk about these things it's best to use the correct terms to avoid misunderstanding...just makes common sense, right?

Quote:
If you always followed "common sense" you would think that the sun was smaller than the earth, and that the earth was flat.


No. Common sense tells us that things that are further away seem smaller. Not using common sense and accepting false premises are what's causing the trouble. The incorrect assumption (premise) is that both heavenly bodies are the same distance from us.

However your example of a flat Earth, uses false premises to create a failure of common sense to parse things correctly.


Exactly! Common sense can fail in the face of logic.

You just slit your own throat and proved my point.

Common sense is whats based upon what is obvious to the observer.

If the limited data availabe immediately gives you false premises then common sense leads to a wrong conclusion.

The sun looks small in the sky, and appears to move, and the firmament you are standing on appears large and stationary. So to an ancient person it would have been just common sense to conclude that the sun was small and went round the earth.

But a scientific observer who collected less obvious data might have been able to use logic to piece data together to disprove that common sense notion even at points in ancient times.



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03 Jan 2017, 5:20 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I'm still confused.


Hopefully this will help
Quote:
The Logic Site

Logical Thinking v Common Sense

Isn’t logical thinking the same as common sense?

Logical Thinking means = a way to analyse a problem to come up with an answer sometimes using a formal system similar to mathematics (a process / disciplined method of thinking). Logical thinking, or incorporating logic into your thinking will ultimately help you to reach a conclusion which is as accurate as possible.

So what is common sense?

Common Sense means = Is a way of taking social understandings and rules, and applying them to a situation, by using common sense, doesn’t necessarily lead us to the truth.

That explains the difference in the most simplest form and easiest way to understand.
Logic is used to reach a conclusion using the most accurate route available to us / mankind.
Common sense however is not always accurate and can sometimes be based on assumptions, social acceptance and no facts.
Remember (to ASSUME can make an ASS out of U and ME)

Lets look at an example of the two and how they could apply in our every day lives.

An example of logical thinking
At the end of every month you go to the cash point machine and find you are always overdrawn. Common sense would tell you that you are spending more than what you are earning. If however you were to incorporate some logical thinking you would perhaps delve deeper and do this:

Go home and analyse your outgoings and discover exactly where the money is going, see facts and evidence, you may discover that the bank has been overcharging you every month in which case that statement above that you are spending more than what you are earning is actually incorrect and not true.

Logical thinking is extremely powerful, take that above example…


logical thinking would lead you to shuffle bills around, get better deals and save a fortune, as well as getting money back from the bank. had you relied on common sense alone without further investigation or analysis then you would still have been overdrawn every month and non the wiser.

If you have problems of any kind take a moment to jot it down on a piece of paper. Break it down, analyse it and look at tackling the problem with a logical mind. You will be surprised how this simple process / exercise can make a problem so much easier to solve. Many people today worry about issues concerning money, health, jobs, retirement, children etc. however many people do little about tackling their problems in a logical manner, when these problems arise emotions kick in and logical thinking is a process which should involve no facts based on emotion.

It has been proven that people who think logically are smarter, they reach more accurate results and conclusions. Logical thinking people reach conclusions based on facts and accurate analysis with no emotion involved.



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03 Jan 2017, 5:21 pm

ZenDen wrote:
Anyway, your trifles aside, we're trying to discuss and pass along correct information to others....since you've studied the subject please go ahead and teach us. I'm always ready to learn, Professor.

If you think I'm going to bother with any sort of substantial response to someone who considers my opinion trifling, you've misjudged me.



Joe90
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03 Jan 2017, 6:45 pm

Quote:
It has been proven that people who think logically are smarter, they reach more accurate results and conclusions. Logical thinking people reach conclusions based on facts and accurate analysis with no emotion involved.


Wow, I am definitely not a logical thinker then, which is OK with me because the more Aspie traits I lack, the more happier I feel about myself.


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